The 2008 Stanley Cup Playoff Thread

[TheXym]

But, the only reason Lilja's in the lineup is Chelios is day to day. Chellie doesn't make those mistakes and we may see him soon.

I'm just hoping Cheli is back soon - Lilja scares me. His gaffes were a key factor to the farce of Anaheim knocking the Wings out last year. When my wife and kids (ages 9 11 and 13) start to point out his screw-ups before I do, that says something, and it's not too good for Mr. Lilja

You are also very right about Datsuk. The Wings players have been brought up in a great system, and Datsuk learned from one of the greatest and emotional toughest forwards to play the game, Stevie Y. It definitely shows in his playing. The key with the Wings system is scoring forwards don't last. If you can't play both ends of the ice with consistency your gone. That's why there's always a couple of wings in line for the Selke.

Your point about Stevie Y is dead on. I was hesitant to bring up the Captain as I want the focus to be on the current roster, but having an example like Yzerman to follow is HUGE. As a side note, I picked up a box set a few days ago of the Red Wings at the local Barnes and Noble which was 4 DVD's and featured a lot of highlights, 5 complete games (including Stevie's OT goal against the Blues). You should pick it up (actually any Wings fan should).

 

[rjny36]

Excellent, excellent recap, TheXym. A big +1 all the way through, and I couldn't have put it better, myself.

 

[TheXym]

Excellent, excellent recap, TheXym. A big +1 all the way through, and I couldn't have put it better, myself.

Thanks, rjny! I've had a few people who've watched games with me tell me I should try to get in with one of the nearby AHL teams for doing commentary, but I don't want to miss Wings games (plus, they'd probably make me profess allegiance to their NHL affiliates as a condition of employment. It wouldn't do to have the color commentator be sporting a Wings jersey in public quite frequently, even if it is a 75th anniversary of the NHL Konstantinov jersey).

As a funny side note, the wood shop teacher in my building is from Pittsburgh, and he decided to start a mini "war" today over the series. I had to respectfully disagree with his email that the wings got lucky in both games. He's much more of a Steelers fan than a Pens fan, so I'll just fire back when he does and save the hockey discussion that requires conscious thought for those who are capable of the same

I'm still very curious to see how Therrien juggles the lines for game 3 with the home ice giving him the last change. If he's smart, he'll be trying to put Crosby, Malkin, and Therrien together against Lilja, though if Malkin is going to keep just mailing it in - imho he's been playing scared - then bump up Staal or Malone. Obviously I'm hoping Chelios can go. If they do that and I'm the Wings coach, then I'd put Lidstrom with Lilja to turn down the suck knob and put Lebda with Rafalski while continuing to have Stuart and Kronwall to keep their physical game going. As a final thought (for this post) - if Babcock can get guys like Dallas Drake to turn the other cheek and buy into his system, maybe he should be coach of the year and get the Jack Adams (I think he deserves it but Boudreau's turnaround of the Cap's season from playing like the 'Crapitals' of old to a playoff qualifier is going to win him the nod, since at the end of the regular season I'd have been leaning that way as well), as too many of those who vote will chalk up the Wings' excellence to their roster and not the coaching. Plus, if I recall correctly, the voting took place at the end of the regular season.

 

[Bad Brains]

Chelios is 100%, he's just being benched.

It's great how the wings aren't retailating, except for the Frazen incidents. When someone cheap shots your teamate in the head, you go after the culprit.

The Pens sure were whining after the game. Detroit has been playing this way for over 10 years now. Now all of the sudden they are 'dirty' because the NHL's poster-child team can't score a goal? Give me a break.

 

[rjny36]

Mike Babcock is one heck of a coach. This is his fourth NHL season, and in three of those years, his team has made it at least as far as the Conference Finals. That doesn't happen by accident. He says the right things, and does the right things. Unfortunately, the Jack Adams voting is based on the regular season, and I do believe Boudreau will get it. Can't say I'm terribly upset about that, either, as he's done a heck of a job.

As for Malkin, he has come out and said that he's out of gas. I have heard some speculation that he would rather be playing in international tournaments for Russia, than playing for the Cup. I'm not sure how true it is, but the speculation came from a Penguins beat writer, so he may well know what he's talking about.

I was pretty disappointed in Pittsburgh's little meltdown. Very, very late hit on Zetterberg after the whistle... several shots at Franzen's head... pretty classless, in my opinion. In the first game, when we were up 3-0 with little time left, and Ruutu took that chop at Samuelsson, Babcock was sending a message by putting the #1 PP Unit on the ice... you want to take some cheap shots, we'll make you pay on the scoreboard. That's part of Bowman's legacy, and honestly, I don't think anybody can argue too much with a guy like Bowman.

As for Dallas Drake, I love what he's brought to the team. He really wants to win it this year, and is working like a dog to get it. Getting him to keep his cool and not retaliate is certainly an accomplishment. He had fights in each of the first few games of the regular season, and I remember either Mickey Redmond or Ken Daniels on FSN Detroit quipping that "Drake is on pace for 82 fighting majors this season!"

 

[TheXym]

Mike Babcock is one heck of a coach. This is his fourth NHL season, and in three of those years, his team has made it at least as far as the Conference Finals. That doesn't happen by accident. He says the right things, and does the right things. Unfortunately, the Jack Adams voting is based on the regular season, and I do believe Boudreau will get it. Can't say I'm terribly upset about that, either, as he's done a heck of a job.

Looks like we agree yet again.

As for Malkin, he has come out and said that he's out of gas. I have heard some speculation that he would rather be playing in international tournaments for Russia, than playing for the Cup. I'm not sure how true it is, but the speculation came from a Penguins beat writer, so he may well know what he's talking about.

I heard about the out of gas, but I hadn't heard his international tournament preference. If those comments are true, then his stock is going to plummet in the NHL. Like the commercials say, the cup changes everything. Though once he sees it firsthand he may finally "get it".

I was pretty disappointed in Pittsburgh's little meltdown. Very, very late hit on Zetterberg after the whistle... several shots at Franzen's head... pretty classless, in my opinion. In the first game, when we were up 3-0 with little time left, and Ruutu took that chop at Samuelsson, Babcock was sending a message by putting the #1 PP Unit on the ice... you want to take some cheap shots, we'll make you pay on the scoreboard. That's part of Bowman's legacy, and honestly, I don't think anybody can argue too much with a guy like Bowman.

Again, well said. Though Barry Melrose still does at times since he thought he was going to get the Wings job when it opened up since he was coaching the Adirondack Red Wings at the time. Still, how can you be bitter about being passed over for the greatest coach in hockey history? I think that little tidbit sheds a lot of light on Melrose's frequent anti-wing bias in the past. He seems to be over it finally, though it could just be bandwagoning.

As for Dallas Drake, I love what he's brought to the team. He really wants to win it this year, and is working like a dog to get it. Getting him to keep his cool and not retaliate is certainly an accomplishment. He had fights in each of the first few games of the regular season, and I remember either Mickey Redmond or Ken Daniels on FSN Detroit quipping that "Drake is on pace for 82 fighting majors this season!"

Mick and Ken are phenomenal announcers, rivaled imho by only the great Mike Lange in US cities. I remember hearing that quip and laughing pretty heartily. Though this year, if Franzen gets the cup winner, I'd love to hear the play by play go something like this: "A shot from the point by Lidstrom, deflected by Franzen.... GOAL! Fleury was beaten BY the rented mule!" (Sorry Pens fans, but that was honestly intended as a respectful tribute to one of, imho, the best sportcasters of all time). I was thrilled by the Drake signing, as I really liked his energy when he first came up to the Wings at the start of his NHL career.

 

[marcray]

As for Malkin, he has come out and said that he's out of gas. I have heard some speculation that he would rather be playing in international tournaments for Russia, than playing for the Cup. I'm not sure how true it is, but the speculation came from a Penguins beat writer, so he may well know what he's talking about.

the "I'm tired" excuse is absolutely shameful for Malkin. I would put money on that beat writers story being quite true. International competition ranks as highly for Euros and so it should, but again it's shameful that it would harm your focus on what you are being paid to do, and should give you equal amount of pride. Old rival Ovechkin is probably getting a ton of praise from Russian fans and media right now, while Malkin is playing second fiddle to a Canadian, in a town where hockey rates probably third behind Football and Baseball... am I right Pittsburgh?

 

[burk48237]

I can't comment on the quality of most of the Pens players, but MICHELLE Therrien is acting like a Michelle. Them Pens sure are cute, whining about obstruction and officiating, while his players are taking cheap shots. One thing is obvious after the first two games of this series, the Pens coaching is soft, perhaps the team is a reflection of it? The Wings record in the Cup finals since 97, 14-1.

Maybe some home cooking will help the pens, but I get the feeling someone better bring plenty of tampons and kleenex to the pens locker room.

 

[MJ5150]

.....I don't think anybody can argue too much with a guy like Bowman.

I agree. He helped us win our '92 Cup.

So you guys wanna whine about the referees......I wanna know when the heck the refs are going to start calling the RW's for having seven men on the ice. It's obvious to me they have more guys on the ice than the Pens do. Everywhere you look is a red jersey on the ice. We can't even get over their blue line.

Detroit is WAY better than I thought they would be. I knew they were good, but not this good. The defense is amazing. I also notice that they are always moving even without the puck, while the Pens are quite often standing there reacting to what they see. Thus, the Pens almost always seem to be a step behind.

I'm not going to jump in and proclaim some beat writers opinion on Malkin as absolute truth. That same guy could say something you don't agree with, and all y'all would be calling him an idiot. I think it is inexperience, but mostly a clever defensive scheme from Babcock being played out perfectly by his equally skilled players. This isn't Malking quitting, he is getting shut down. Until he figures out how to play through it, he won't do much.

I read up on the 1983 Oilers that TheXym referred to. Wow, this is really similar. I don't think Crosby is the next Gretzky, but the tremendous amount of talent on both teams is comparable. I don't know anything about the Islanders team back then, but I can't imagine them being better than the RW's are now. So I'll take a loss this year if it means five or six cups in the next 10 years.

As for the cheap shots everyone is complaining about, that is unfortunate. But I don't think the Pens are doing anything that isn't being done to them. The Pens just seem to be doing it in front of the refs or the cameras so it is more noticeable.

I still want my Pens to win, and I am not giving up. They showed some flashes of good play last night, kind of like they were breaking free from the death grip the RW's had on their necks. Malkin actually got free a couple times, and Crosby made a couple nice plays. I think Malone is having a nice series, and Fleury is doing alright despite getting shell shocked. These games could have easily been 7-0 or 8-0 without his goal keeping.

My keys to a game three win, remember I am a newbie to hockey analysis, so please don't light me up if these are stupid.....I think we need to get some more traffic in front of Osgood. It's easy to stop everything when you can see it. Get some traffic in front of him and make him move around, he'll let a couple through the pipes.
We need to stop with the stupid penalties.
We HAVE to match the Wings intensity. This is the finals. We are facing adversity. It's time to step up or go home.

-Mike

 

[MJ5150]

.....in a town where hockey rates probably third behind Football and Baseball... am I right Pittsburgh?

Football is #1 by light years, hands down. The Pens are a solid #2 right now as long as they win. The Pirates will stay #3 for a long time. Should the Pens start losing, they will drop into a tie for #3, and #2 will be more Steelers.

-Mike

 

[milhouse]

I just found this thread so I'm jumping in late. Long-time Penguins fan here.

What happened to Pittsburgh? The Penguins have only been on the same level as the Wings for a few minutes in two games. It's like they don't realize they are in the finals. I hoped they'd catch on after the 1st game. I expected so much more, not the cup, but at least an interesting series.


Let's go Pens!!

 

[rjny36]

My keys to a game three win, remember I am a newbie to hockey analysis, so please don't light me up if these are stupid.....I think we need to get some more traffic in front of Osgood. It's easy to stop everything when you can see it. Get some traffic in front of him and make him move around, he'll let a couple through the pipes.
We need to stop with the stupid penalties.
We HAVE to match the Wings intensity. This is the finals. We are facing adversity. It's time to step up or go home.

-Mike

These are great keys, actually. You should give yourself more credit.

For the Pens, I think the biggest thing is to get a good start. The first period of Game 3 is going to be critical for them. Teams often talk about there being two games: a 10 minute game, and a 50 minute game. Feed off the crowd. Give yourself something to build on... be it a big hit, a goal... anything. If they can get something going, it can help build some confidence, and get the momentum swinging their way. If the Penguins get the lead, it'll do wonders for them.

If the Penguins fall behind by a goal, they need to watch their frustration levels. 1 and 2 goal deficits are not impossible to overcome, but to do that, they need to not give the Red Wings any help by beating themselves through bad penalties or mental mistakes.

Finally, for Pittsburgh, they need to play their game. They got to the Finals for a reason. They're obviously a very talented group. Use the last change to your advantage. Hold onto the puck, make simple plays... good, crisp passes. If you're going to dump-and-chase, make sure you have second man support going in after the puck. If you're going to try and carry across the blueline, use some creativity to get around the Wings' D.

 

[JimK]

I wanna know when the heck the refs are going to start calling the RW's for having seven men on the ice. It's obvious to me they have more guys on the ice than the Pens do. Everywhere you look is a red jersey on the ice. We can't even get over their blue line.

It seems that way to you, too...huh?
Might as well complain about Detroit titlting the rink towards the Pens' goal, too.

Detroit is WAY better than I thought they would be. I knew they were good, but not this good.

The very little I saw last night was scary good.

I read up on the 1983 Oilers that TheXym referred to. Wow, this is really similar. I don't think Crosby is the next Gretzky, but the tremendous amount of talent on both teams is comparable. I don't know anything about the Islanders team back then, but I can't imagine them being better than the RW's are now.

I vaguely remember seeing those great Islander teams...IIRC, hockey was pretty non-existent on the TV around here back then.
I do, however, remember Edmonton. Cable TV had finally arrived here & ESPN was all about hockey...how good were the Oilers? They forced a rules change (I think...maybe the experts here will school me otherwise)...on a coincidental minor, teams now skate 4-on-4, right? This was the rule back in Edmonton's hey day, too...the problem? the Oilers were so potent at scoring 4-on-4, the NHL went to a change: Teams still skated 5-on-5 during coincidental minors.
Recently, the 'old' 4-on-4 rule came back to stimulate scoring chances for all.

...and how about Paul Coffey, a defenceman, scoring 48 goals in ONE season during the Oilers' reign of terror...and 40+ in another?!?

 

[Bad Brains]

The old Oiler teams were nutso. I remember stumbling on a website that had every score to every game dating back to the 40's. Looking at scores to Oiler games back then, they reached over 10-15 goals a game on a fairley consistant basis. I'm not even a Gretzky fan, but his point totals were mind boggling.

 

[warwick.hoy]

As for Malkin, he has come out and said that he's out of gas. I have heard some speculation that he would rather be playing in international tournaments for Russia, than playing for the Cup. I'm not sure how true it is, but the speculation came from a Penguins beat writer, so he may well know what he's talking about.

Wow, I used to have some respect for Malkin.

As far as Mike Babcock being a great coach, I must also agree. He coached the Spokane Chiefs. From wiki 224–172–29 over six seasons.

The Chiefs are our home WHL team. They just won the WHL championship and the Memorial Cup. A pleasure to watch I might add.

 

[rjny36]

As far as Mike Babcock being a great coach, I must also agree. He coached the Spokane Chiefs. From wiki 224–172–29 over six seasons.

The Chiefs are our home WHL team. They just won the WHL championship and the Memorial Cup. A pleasure to watch I might add.

A team so good they spontaneously created two trophies to celebrate!

 

[warwick.hoy]

A team so good they spontaneously created two trophies to celebrate!

I'm not sure how it works, but they are part of the CHL (canadian hockey league) which includes the QMJHL, the OHL and the WHL. They won the WHL championship and the Memorial cup which I believe is the total CHL championship. Although I only went to a semifinal and a conference final game for the WHL (as well as a few regular season games) they were entertaining to watch.

So yeah 2 trophies, the Ed Chynoweth Cup, and the Memorial Cup.

 

[warwick.hoy]

PS. Hockey should be #1 in all towns, why........? Real men don't play with balls!
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[rjny36]

Well, I meant that they made the Memorial Cup into two trophies.

 

[warwick.hoy]

^^^^^Holy effing $***. That was hilarious. I had no Idea. Seriously LOL. At least that was a minor trophy and not the Stanley Cup.