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The Aleph - A Call for Opinions

#21
Michael,
Love the idea of the hidden pickup. Also a big fan of using domestic/local wood. I especially like your willingness to push the envelope. On the esthetics of the headstock perhaps something that splits the difference between nothing and the revised headstock would be more appealing. When I first saw the revision the image that popped into my head was "platypus", and I sort of giggled. Maybe a headstock that suggest the shape of the lower horn in some way might work? I like your work and am following this build as well as your Sin Cabesa Cinco build.
Rondo
 
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#22
michaelwayneharwood said:
the-aleph_zpsc68417a5.png
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I'd oval the soundholes long ways rather than sideways, but otherwise yes, that's much better.

pilotjones said:
For the headstock, I'd try replacing the curve at the bass side with something more closely resembling the shape of the body's bass-side non-horn (upper bout).
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THIS! I try to match some angles/curves on my body to those on the headstock. I'd also be modelling the headstock on a traditional guitar in the same way your body is. That way you end up with something very innovative, but also aesthetically recognizable as a guitar. This anchors people's eyes into what their ears are hearing. ;)
 
#24
michaelwayneharwood said:
Here are a pair of quick updates to further the conversation. The sound holes were modified to ovals, and a headstock was added. Sound holes in both upper and lower sections were added to take a peek at what @Feral Feline's idea would look like. No offense to the Untamed Felinae, but I prefer the sound holes in the upper horn over the combination he suggested.

The headstock is basically the shape of the lower half of the body, and in my opinion is looks like a warped muffin top, but it's a place to start. A "string through" design similar to the three wood challenge bass or @reverendrally's three wood challenge bass would remove the necessity of fabricating a headpiece. I am not sure that I like the idea of a headstock for the bass in general, but that may be because I have not stumbled upon a shape that really resonates with me yet.



the-aleph_zpsc68417a5.png
the-aleph-2_zps64044b79.png
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Loving the head stock on these. However I much preferred the round sound holes.
 
#25
Rev's point about the headstock is spot on - the aesthetic impact seems to be at odds with the practical functionality of being "hangable". One possible (overly elaborate and therefore appealing) option would be spring-loaded recessed arms that would retract when playing but could be extended for hanging.

Yeah, do that. :)
 
#26
Thanks so much for all of the great feedback! I am very grateful for all of the input and assistance.

pilotjones said:
I understand a desire for symmetry, but the four CW and four CCW tuner pins personally would drive me insane. I'd either make them all go the same way for logic and muscle memory's sake, or maybe better yet do three CW tightening on the bass three strings and five CCW tightening on the treble five strings since it follows the other logical grouping. Plus, the asymmetrical aesthetic is nicer to me as it counters and balances the (standard) asymmetrical bass and treble wings.
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Agreed on on counts.

rondodunbar said:
Love the idea of the hidden pickup. Also a big fan of using domestic/local wood. I especially like your willingness to push the envelope.
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The biggest challenge I can see on the pickup mounted from the rear is that there will no ability to raise the pickup past a certain point. In this build I plan on using custom built Alumiclones (thanks for that GREAT name suggestion, BTW) that will use neodymium magnets that I am hoping will alleviate issues presented with a greater distance from the strings. I have a tendency to pursue ideas that often times seem to be outside the "pale of orthodoxy" as it were. This build is a ways away (at least a month), but I may just use this thread as the build diary rather than make a new thread to provide continuity, as well as keep all of the history in one place

reverendrally said:
I'd oval the soundholes long ways rather than sideways, but otherwise yes, that's much better.
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I gave that a try, and agree. It flows much better with vertical ovals.

ctmullins said:
One possible (overly elaborate and therefore appealing) option would be spring-loaded recessed arms that would retract when playing but could be extended for hanging.
Click to expand...

Oh my. I will have to think about this idea a bit more.... ;)


I am really struggling with the headstock shape - I have not been able to come up with anything that I like as much as a fully headless design. I agree that absence of a headstock will limit the options for hanging the instrument, but that has not been an issue for me. I may be understating this, but I don't miss having a headstock on the Lady 5Jane and have some time before the build starts to live with this option. I am certainly not giving up and will continue to see if I can come up with something that I like.

Here is the most recent version that incorporates all of the ideas and suggestions that resonate with me. I am going to switch gears and start working on the chamber design, as well as the back of the bass - I will be posting those designs soon. Please feel free to continue to provide suggestions and opinions on all aspects of the design - this has been a very enjoyable process, and has helped me a ton.


the-aleph_zps6b4a7449.png
 
#27
I was thinking of "fanning" the ovals, length ways at the ends but perpendicular in the middle, 'cause I wasn't sure how the hole in the middle would match up with the peak of the upper bass bout.

Well, no worries. Looks great!

Oh, and many thanks for tryin' out my wholly holey idea. I still like it, but also like the holes-only-on-the-upper-bass-bout look. Besides, the plucking forearm will be covering the lower bass bout anyway. Headstock... I liked others' ideas of echoing the shape of the body's upper bouts.

Cool bass, cool thread. Looking forward to more :cool:.
 
#29
Feral Feline said:
Oh, and many thanks for tryin' out my wholly holey idea.
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No - thank YOU for the idea! I am not enamored of the look, but it was a great idea. Thank you so much for the compliments!

rondodunbar said:
I am really with you on headless basses not needing a headstock. I like he clean look, besides a stand will hold a headless as well as any other bass. My $0.02.
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I have always loved the looks of headless instruments, and for me it's a worthwhile trade in losing some wall hanging options.
 
#30
Oh my.... I was poking around Google Images to see if I could find some headstock ideas for single cut basses that appealed to me, and I came across this TalkBass thread. It looks like I may have unknowingly ripped off the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] design by @Skelf from AC Guitars. Well, at the very least I am going to give credit where credit is due - I certainly was not the first one to think of this design.

img_6388.jpg
 
#34
I decided to change the scale length to 32" to see how that would affect the layout. With that scale length I was able to pull the tuning pins down a bit on the body, and provide easy access to the 24th fret. I added a dark gray square enclosing the body whose dimensions are the size of a standard body blank (14" by 20") to provide an idea of the size of the body, and to help in planning for the number of board feet of different woods that will be required. This is my favorite version so far - what do you guys think?

the-aleph_zps12a1e0e6.png
 
#35
When I first posed the question regarding the efficacy of using piano pins for a headless bass design I built a very ghetto 5 string prototype from parts and a hacked up Chimera prototype body. To my surprise was a joy to play even though it was very rough around the edges. I very much liked the slimmed down body, the low weight, and because of those tings it got played all the time. As an exercise to see what the Aleph body style might look like in 5 and 6 string configurations I did a little editing and they have much the same visual appeal, but to my eyes look much more refined.

What do you guys think? Do you think the Aleph shape translate well after being slimmed down?

DSC_0218_zps5de46478.jpg
the-aleph-5_zpsbf02272a.png
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#37
rondodunbar said:
Ooooooh, like the sleek lines of the 5.
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Thanks! I need to exercise a new 3/4" router bit I am getting in the mail before running the neck of the Sin Cabeza Cinco build through it- maybe a pine prototype with a spare oak neck blank I have handy is in order here...

;)
 
#38
michaelwayneharwood said:
What do you guys think? Do you think the Aleph shape translate well after being slimmed down?

the-aleph-5_zpsbf02272a.png
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I think it's too slim there. Looks a little squashed to my eyes. I'd bring it back out to a similar width. You'll loose a LOT of weight with only 5 strings anyway just because there is much less neck/through timber and it usually weighs a lot. You'll also have extra body you can chamber further reducing weight. If you want to make it lighter still, have a bolt on neck or reduce the scale to 32".
 
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#40
The scale shown is at 32". Just for clarification the slimming was less for weight control than aesthetics. I tried some wider versions that did not look as good to my eyes, but I definitely appreciate the feedback. The more I look at it the more I like the ultra slim look on the 5, but I think the real test is going to be building one and living with it. I love the changes made to the Chimera body style that were made in the Sin Cabeza Cinco thread, and am keeping myself open to all opinions.

;)
 

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