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Double Bass The Alsatian Queen Rises from the Dead

#202
Methinks of apples and oranges, diving boards and tuning forks.
IF a tuning fork were made out of brass and another were made of titanium, both of the exact size, I believe the brass one would have a lower resonant frequency. The elasticity would differ some, but the brass tuning fork would have much greater mass.
That's my belief.

The only way to know for sure would be to take tailpieces of identical size and shape made from various woods (weights) and experiment. Hang them in an anechoic chamber and feed the room with a signal generator.

D@m*ed if I don't sound like Drurb. Need coffee.:eyebrow::help:
 
#203
drurb said:
Thanks. When you file material off the diving board or tuning fork, the resonant frequency goes up. Maybe it's in the "note of assembly." What exactly is that? Just trying to understand how it works. :)
Click to expand...

Did you actually use a file on a tuning fork or is that just theory talking? As you remove material you weaken the structure so that it gets more floppy, ie sounds a lower note.

I think that if you take a file to your fork you'll understand it completely! ;)
 
#204
bruiser1964 said:
With the diving board analogy - a thicker board will have a higher frequency than a thinner board (of the same length) as the thinner board can vibrate more freely. So I guess it depends where the mass is lost from...
Click to expand...

Bingo! Give the man glass of the finest! ;)
 
#205
bruiser1964 said:
With the diving board analogy - a thicker board will have a higher frequency than a thinner board (of the same length) as the thinner board can vibrate more freely. So I guess it depends where the mass is lost from...
Click to expand...

Jake deVilliers said:
Did you actually use a file on a tuning fork or is that just theory talking? As you remove material you weaken the structure so that it gets more floppy, ie sounds a lower note.

I think that if you take a file to your fork you'll understand it completely! ;)
Click to expand...

Jake deVilliers said:
Bingo! Give the man glass of the finest! ;)
Click to expand...

No bingo for me.

If you increase the mass property or decrease the elasticity property of a system, the resonant frequency will decrease according to the relationship:
ωn = √(k/m)

Increasing the mass or lowering the stiffness will lower the resonant frequency. If you remove enough material from a diving board with a fulcrum and make it less stiff, you'll be playing the two against each other. Now, I still don't know the definition of "note of assembly," but if you take a block of wood (like a tailpiece) and strike it, then it will ring. Now, if you shave off wood and strike it again, it'll ring at a higher frequency. Tuning forks with lower resonant frequencies are more massive. This isn't just "theory talking." Think of a xylophone. Smaller (less massive) blocks of wood-- higher pitch. So, I still can't square this with what you said.

Perhaps it's the case that when you remove mass from the tailpiece, you increase it's own resonant frequency but you lower the resonant frequency of the tailpiece/string system in the afterlength. When you do your matching, what do you measure to make the match? Do you measure the resonant frequency of the tailpiece in isolation or the tailpiece/string system after assembly?
 
#206
Well I'm not diving from my bass and I never play in tune so I save my forks for salads and steaks.

The bass really sounds like a monster acoustically. I'm really digging playing with the gut core top strings right now. I did a thing in somebody's house last night unamplified in a 1000 sq ft kitchen/living room thing and the bass just sounded amazing. I was remembering how much fun it was to have the cut through of gut strings on a gig.

I have no idea how the bass will fare amplified at the moment as I haven't had a gig like that in a bit. If I'd guess I'd suspect it would be a rumbly mess. The bass is very very live right now.

The lowered tension of the Oliv sounds good on the bass and makes my now slightly atrophied hands happy even with the Stark E string. The Oliv D is a bit thunky pizz past G but arco is just stupid good up and down the string.

I kinda wish I had more gigs now. I wanna give the Queen a proper ride.
 
#208
The Oliv D/G, Spiro Mittel E/A is a great mix on this bass. Once again I went back to the Mitt E from the Stark and everything balanced better. It's a tough choice for me as I love the way the Stark E shakes the bass; but overall the results in my self recordings and the feel of the bass tell me the bone rattle of the Stark E doesn't translate into good sound and overall balance as well as the Mittle.

Through an amp with the Realist it sounds especially good. I don't have any gigs to test it on however so who knows how that will go. It's always different in context. The Realist sounds smoother and more like my bass with this combination of things than the Full Circle. The FC sounds great too however and I could use either. I could see me using the Realist for lower volume gigs and the FC for louder stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if that all hits the toilet on the gig.

In my lesson the other day my teacher went nuts playing the bass with that light Tailpiece, the Olivs and the Spiros. She was zooming through Bach stuff and freaking out. I must say it sounded fantastic. Bow and Pizz this combination is exactly what I want to hear off the bass. Gut core gives that gut projection thing while the wraps make arco very friendly. Spiros on the bottom give me that modern long note power thing Spiros do. Fwiw, the lighter tailpiece and nothing hanging off it really helped this combination where before it didn't sound near as good.

So it makes my practicing much more fun. Since that's all I'm doing right now that's what counts.
 
#210
Treyzer said:
Phil,

I'm with you on the Spiro Olive combo. However, I'm using a Mittel E, Weich A & D and an Olive G. This combo sounds great on my bass and I'm lovin it!
Click to expand...
I could see that working very well for me too. I think the Mittel D is possibly to heavy for the bass now as is the Mittel G. I like what's happening now though so I'm gonna leave it alone for awhile.
 
#212
Uncletoad said:
Through an amp with the Realist it sounds especially good. I don't have any gigs to test it on however so who knows how that will go. It's always different in context. The Realist sounds smoother and more like my bass with this combination of things than the Full Circle. The FC sounds great too however and I could use either. I could see me using the Realist for lower volume gigs and the FC for louder stuff.
Click to expand...

I also went back and forth on my bass and settled on the Realist. Although both sounded good to me during the gig, it was listening to the Zoom recordings I make during every gig that made my decision. The full circle sounded too clear, lacking that 'wood'. The Realist gives more punch down low but also captures the low end resonance that we paid so much money for.:D

Good luck playing louder gigs but my setup has been fine, even on a couple loud big band gigs.
 
#213
clink said:
I also went back and forth on my bass and settled on the Realist. Although both sounded good to me during the gig, it was listening to the Zoom recordings I make during every gig that made my decision. The full circle sounded too clear, lacking that 'wood'. The Realist gives more punch down low but also captures the low end resonance that we paid so much money for.:D

Good luck playing louder gigs but my setup has been fine, even on a couple loud big band gigs.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm noticing. It's funny that before I changed the setup on the bass I didn't notice that kind of difference. I arranged the pickups so both are on the bass now so switching is just a matter of moving to adjacent jacks.

I beginning to think that if I sit out to long I'll end up not getting any work at all when I want it. It's weird, the phone is very quiet right now.
 
#214
That Oliv D is a Mynx. Sometimes it's just Gut goodness, other times it's a thunky mess. It asks for a lighter touch which I don't have..although if I keep up this unemployment thing I might just develop one.
 
#216
wow, on my bass the ep weich D is a sweet one. dark and rich. its a new bass. brand new model too. im pretty sure ill have number one (but not positive, although no one here has mentioned one of these yet). ill start a thread after i pay for it!

clink said:
If it doesn't work for you, I'll take it. The EP weich D is just a hair brighter, thinner sounding between the G and EP A. Tension wise they are OK. Everything is a tradeoff for something else. Been looking for nirvana but prolly have to die first.
Click to expand...
 
#218
There is something about the way a gut or gut core string carries in a room that is really satisfying. Trumps the thunky thing. I don't notice the thunky thing on most gigs or ensemble work, just in practice at home. What I do notice is how those gut tops carry in the room and how the Spiros tend to not carry as well.

Makes me wanna go gut...then I think about all the other hassle that goes with it and think differently.
 
#219
With the Olive G the notes just pop right out of the bass like nothing else. It's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it, but there is a lot of meat on the bone.
Although the EP weichs match up well the notes don't quite have the same power.
Granted, the EP's are 19 months old, but I may go with the regular set next time to see if there's more there there.
Problem is, my weichs still sound too good to change.
 

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