But anyway, who plays a Fender bass with the tone all the way up?
Much of today's generation sadly!
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
The basic flaw in the p-bass
- Thread starter Ric5
- Start date
Much of today's generation sadly!
I played with tone wide open throughout the 80s and 90s too.... and so did most jazz bassists I knew. In the circle of pros I met growing up it was considered challenging, commendable and impressive to be able to play with the tone wide open and get a wide variety of tones just from your fingers. I buzzed and misfretted less and less over those years and became a much better player than i originally was. But I also started out playing jazz which I'm sure made a difference 
The world isn't just about thud rock bass tone my friends
The best reason to do it was to improve technique - I got so I could play my left fingers just on the edge of the frets to control the tone with both my left hand and right hand technique and avoid any string buzz or mis fretting even when playing very fast jazz work.
That gave me a great foundation that I've built upon for the more recent decades of experimental playing and ERBs etc etc.
However to do this day I still do play old fender USA precision 4 string basses with maple fretboards and light gauge strings better than any other bass. Old habits die hard. But I don't own one.
The world isn't just about thud rock bass tone my friends
The best reason to do it was to improve technique - I got so I could play my left fingers just on the edge of the frets to control the tone with both my left hand and right hand technique and avoid any string buzz or mis fretting even when playing very fast jazz work.
That gave me a great foundation that I've built upon for the more recent decades of experimental playing and ERBs etc etc.
However to do this day I still do play old fender USA precision 4 string basses with maple fretboards and light gauge strings better than any other bass. Old habits die hard. But I don't own one.
That's funny, because it has never quite worked out that way for me, as I set the strings as low as they will go without buzzing given my moderate touch.
I can report no problems with output or response.
Hopkins
Commercial User
Yeah todays generation is so dumb for wanting a bright, growly bass tone instead of just low end thud.
That's why I usually don't favor the tone knob on a Precison. Ox was on the money, although if you wanted to EQ it to have more bottom on the tone, you could. I generally stay away from the tone knob on most basses because I feel the effect is similar. I feel like the tone knob is often waaaaaay overused by some players. It drives me absolutely nuts when a player will leave it cranked for every song, regardless of context. Unless it calls for it, I don't touch it. I feel the biggest flaw of any Fender (and any other bass) is the dead spot.
The Ox wrote the book on GAS!
Interesting that he wasn't satisfied with the sound of his Precisions as he did most of his best work using them (IMHO, of course!!!) including "Live at Leeds" which demonstrates what many (in my circles, anyway) consider to be the quintessential rock bass sound.
It's also not completely out of the realm of possibility that JE had some degree of hearing loss (probably centered in the low frequencies) as he was one of, if not _the_ loudest bass players on the planet playing in one of, if not _the_ loudest bands on the planet.
On the eternal tone rolloff or no tone rolloff on passive Fender basses controversy ... I'll weigh in (and prepare to get my arse flamed). I think the louder the band/the bigger the venue, the less need there is to use the passive tone rolloff. Just the sheer girth of sound and the boom of the room will add all the bottom that will ever be needed and it is the inherent (almost) honkey midrange of the Precision that enables it to cut through so well.
Yeah todays generation is so dumb for wanting a bright, growly bass tone instead of just low end thud.
Yes. But that is what most of the other types of basses are for, as this was not the intent of the Precisions designers!
On the eternal tone rolloff or no tone rolloff on passive Fender basses controversy ... I'll weigh in (and prepare to get my arse flamed). I think the louder the band/the bigger the venue, the less need there is to use the passive tone rolloff. Just the sheer girth of sound and the boom of the room will add all the bottom that will ever be needed and it is the inherent (almost) honkey midrange of the Precision that enables it to cut through so well.
Today, there are neat little devices called the ToneStyler tone pot and micro-petal that will solve your dilemma.
First off I never cared for Entwistles tone on anything he played in anyhow. This statement is crazy! If anything my P basses have to much low end..it's called EQ.
Who cranks the treble up all the way anyhow?
Funny how Entwistle wanted to be cremated with his P-bass... see 5:40
He must have really hated it to set it on fire
The tone knob rolling off the amount of bass is an indication of and electronics problem (wiring, grounding, bad cap, etc.) so the tone knob is in effect acting more like a second volume knob. Otherwise it should only allow the higher frequencies to bleed to ground.
I've wired mine (MIM with a Mighty Mite maple jazz neck) with the stock MIM pup, a SD Quarter Pound, a Dimarzio Split P, 250K's, 300K's (Gibson style), 500K's, various caps and even a push-pull to send the pup direct to the jack. Nothing impedes the bottom end, just various degrees of edge / top end.
Also strung it with everything from flats, to tapes, nickel, stainless, heavy to light all with low action. Strings and action (with proper pickup-to-string height) impact the attack, string noise, harmonics, sustain etc. and all require a modification of technique. However, none of them have ever "lacked" bottom end (except for a bum tapewound E string - that thing just sucked in general).
I think in general as much attention to technique needs to be paid as to the hardware that effects your tone. For some players, rolling off the tone is a way to mask bad/sloppy technique... not all players, but more than there should be.
And yes, it is pretty well known that Entwistle suffered hearing loss - started with the drum explosion on the Smother's Brothers.
He must have really hated it to set it on fire
The tone knob rolling off the amount of bass is an indication of and electronics problem (wiring, grounding, bad cap, etc.) so the tone knob is in effect acting more like a second volume knob. Otherwise it should only allow the higher frequencies to bleed to ground.
I've wired mine (MIM with a Mighty Mite maple jazz neck) with the stock MIM pup, a SD Quarter Pound, a Dimarzio Split P, 250K's, 300K's (Gibson style), 500K's, various caps and even a push-pull to send the pup direct to the jack. Nothing impedes the bottom end, just various degrees of edge / top end.
Also strung it with everything from flats, to tapes, nickel, stainless, heavy to light all with low action. Strings and action (with proper pickup-to-string height) impact the attack, string noise, harmonics, sustain etc. and all require a modification of technique. However, none of them have ever "lacked" bottom end (except for a bum tapewound E string - that thing just sucked in general).
I think in general as much attention to technique needs to be paid as to the hardware that effects your tone. For some players, rolling off the tone is a way to mask bad/sloppy technique... not all players, but more than there should be.
And yes, it is pretty well known that Entwistle suffered hearing loss - started with the drum explosion on the Smother's Brothers.
Yes. But that is what most of the other types of basses are for, as this was not the intent of the Precisions designers!
? Precisions do the growly mid forward bright thing perfectly well and ideally in some folks opinions. It wasn't the intent of the p designer because before the p bass there was no such thing as bright mid forward sustained bass tone. The precision is THE instrument that invented this tone and allowed other designers to come up with concepts that maximized the effect and the Leo himself once he realized how popular a tone he'd inadvertently invented with his p bass. It turned out the p did forward modern tones far better than it's original intent... which was originally to be an easy to play in tune, portable, substitute for the upright bass.
It wasn't the intention of smart phones to be gaming and social networking centers when RIM invented them. But look what happened? And then Apple and others maximized on the concept with specialty devices that did it even better.
Don't you know, we aren't supposed to turn any of the knobs... EVER. Or that's what it seems...
I don't understand what all of the fear and reluctance to adjust eq settings is about.
I also don't understand all of this assumed knowledge in to the "minds of the p-bass designers." Really??
The "p-bass" that seems to be the point of this thread came out in 1957... 57. Which means it was likely in the design stages as early as '55 or so. Any thought as to what bass amplification technology was like in the mid 1950's?? Frequency response of drivers? Playing style? Role of bass lines to music of the time?
The "p-bass" that seems to be the point of this thread came out in 1957... 57. Which means it was likely in the design stages as early as '55 or so. Any thought as to what bass amplification technology was like in the mid 1950's?? Frequency response of drivers? Playing style? Role of bass lines to music of the time?
Hopkins
Commercial User
Yes. But that is what most of the other types of basses are for, as this was not the intent of the Precisions designers!
Then why even install a tone pot? If that was the design they would have just installed a capacitor straight to ground with no control over it.
I guess all those rock and punk guys with that awesome P bass pick tone have been doing it wrong this whole time. Someone should have told them that they couldn't do that on a P bass.
Basic flaw in threads discussing tone:
If you want to make a point about sound - use sound clips. Not words.
If you want to make a point about sound - use sound clips. Not words.
There is a drum forum that I frequent that has "discussions" regarding the flaws, merits, differences between Ludwig and DW drums. It tends to get heated, stupid and results in the eating of popcorn by lots of people...
TB has the P-bass vs Rickenbacker wars, it's sort of similar.
I'm convinced that these "popcorn" threads must be started by the heirs of Orville Redenbacher.
TB has the P-bass vs Rickenbacker wars, it's sort of similar.
I'm convinced that these "popcorn" threads must be started by the heirs of Orville Redenbacher.
As far as how my 61 sounds like I couldn't tell you,I would guess like a 59 p just because its dated Jan. Of 1961 but I really couldn't say
Yeah todays generation is so dumb for wanting a bright, growly bass tone instead of just low end thud.
Noone said you can't play with the tone all the way up. Just don't make a thread complaining that a bass dosen't have enough lowend when you have the tone all the way up!
The tone knob is there, that's the point, use it. If you want the clickity clack pick sound play with it on, but if you are looking for a low end thud it will do that too, you just have to use the darn knob, that's what its there for! :scowl:
