The Conclusions I've drawn about Micro Bass Heads

[InkCow]

I think of the gain knob as a "distortion/thickener/compression" knob.
Today I plugged my Zoom B1 Four into my main amp head's instrument socket, with the -15dB pad engaged, (amp gain set at noon) and it actually sounded pretty good.
I'm going to experiment with it more tomorrow ... maybe I don't need an MBH to have an FX loop after all.

Fwiw, I run my pedal board, which includes - among other things - a Zoom MS60B and two preamp/DI pedals that I use for my primary tone shaping into the instrument input of my Gnome. At unity gain from my NUX MLD (which is the last pedal on my board), I don’t feel like I’m pushing too much signal into the amp (the Gnome has no pad), nor do I feel like the amp’s preamp complicates anything.

This is simply my opinion and experience, YMMV and all that, but I also thought that an input post-amp preamp was a requirement and I have since changed my mind about that and put it in the “nice to have” column.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I’m sorry, I just can’t buy what y’all are selling here. Like sure, the specific example that you gave of a sheet of paper 5lb amp being too big may be a little silly… but that’s not what the other comment said.

He said that it ‘makes him sad’ that many bassists feel that ‘smaller is better.’ I a) don’t understand why that would remotely be something that makes him ‘sad’ or even bothers him in the least and b) find it wholly indefensible on its face, as smaller is pretty objectively better if we’re not playing a tube amp.

Secondly, I’m just not sure who you’re seeing that says that your example, 10”x12” @4.5# is too big. Now if these people actually exist, then sure maybe that’s a little silly..

BUT at the same time, if we are heading to where amps can be smaller than that with ACTUAL power and not just these silly 200w deals… then I’m sorry again, but smaller just IS better, then. Until we reach the point where we are losing ubiquitous features of an amp, I just can’t take the complaint seriously… and considering the number of pedals that manage 10 knobs and a side chain, there’s room before we hit ‘too small’ (assuming the tech actually develops further to shrink amps in that way.)

I love tube amps, I don’t begrudge anybody theirs and I love the sound.. but I don’t at all understand what I interpreted as the previous commenter’s romanticization of size, and the loss thereof being a shame..

Personally, I don’t have any interest in a beeper-sized amp that you control through an App on your phone.. but there are people for whom the gear size arms race is opening new opportunities in their career. The absolute misery of playing in a big city, schlepping gear on subways or in cabs, is not something I miss in the least, and if bassists are able to downsize to a gig bag and a lightweight cab, then you’re just not going to convince me that’s a bad thing.. which is what he said made him sad

Those people absolutely do exist and I have seen the posts.

I dont think that is what he was saying at all based on my reading and what he also said in multiple posts after that.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I think of the gain knob as a "distortion/thickener/compression" knob.
Today I plugged my Zoom B1 Four into my main amp head's instrument socket, with the -15dB pad engaged, (amp gain set at noon) and it actually sounded pretty good.
I'm going to experiment with it more tomorrow ... maybe I don't need an MBH to have an FX loop after all.

I am curious. Have you ever actually used an effects loop or is it just something you think you need? I used to like the idea of it until I actually tried it and found it to be anemic and pointless.

 

[agedhorse]

I just don't see the point. Especially if the amp has a gain knob. I am sure you know far better than me, but personally I haven't heard one that I didn't think was a tone suck.

The point is for players using very high output basses, suing the active (or lower gain) input position provides a more expanded range of the gain control.

You may not have ever used an amp where the pad/active-passive/gain switch wasn't a "tone suck", but this shows to me that you haven't experienced enough different amps. In the case of amps I designed (and I'm not the only designer doing this), the switch simply extends the range of the gain control and nothing more.

@agedhorse
Looking to go lightweight since my SVT 4 pro weights a ton when racked, love the sound hâte load in load outs since. I’m getting older.

How do you think the Mesa Subway D800 fit replacing my old 4 pro tank?

I use old pre 2000 Eden 410 cabs rated at 8 ohms 700watts.

How’s the warranty on the Mesa products for us up hear in Québec?

thanks for any help/opinion/guidance

You should try the D-800+ and WD-800, both are different flavors that might suit your tastes. The variable HPF and expanded eq on the plus version would probably be helpful too. The warranty in Canada is 5 years (if I'm remembering correctly).

I am curious. Have you ever actually used an effects loop or is it just something you think you need? I used to like the idea of it until I actually tried it and found it to be anemic and pointless.

Different players use effects loops for different purposes. In the case of the OP, based on his description, he is using it as a line level input for an outboard preamp which is an ideal application. It's also not just necessary but essential for using line level effects (like a pro audio compressor) that will not operate satisfactorily at instrument level (both for level and input impedance reasons).

Your perspective is obviously quite limited, you are missing applications that are necessary or essential to other player's needs here. Different players have different needs and what you might see as pointless, others find essential.

 

[Stranger Danger]

The point is for players using very high output basses, suing the active (or lower gain) input position provides a more expanded range of the gain control.

You may not have ever used an amp where the pad/active-passive/gain switch wasn't a "tone suck", but this shows to me that you haven't experienced enough different amps. In the case of amps I designed (and I'm not the only designer doing this), the switch simply extends the range of the gain control and nothing more.



You should try the D-800+ and WD-800, both are different flavors that might suit your tastes. The variable HPF and expanded eq on the plus version would probably be helpful too. The warranty in Canada is 5 years (if I'm remembering correctly).



Different players use effects loops for different purposes. In the case of the OP, based on his description, he is using it as a line level input for an outboard preamp which is an ideal application. It's also not just necessary but essential for using line level effects (like a pro audio compressor) that will not operate satisfactorily at instrument level (both for level and input impedance reasons).

Your perspective is obviously quite limited, you are missing applications that are necessary or essential to other player's needs here. Different players have different needs and what you might see as pointless, others find essential.

I have used multiple Genz Benz Shuttle and Mesa Subway amps over the years going back to the first GB shuttles hitting the market. Never had any issues as they were great amps but also never saw the point of that switch. Ultimately, the user gets to decide if they think it is worthwhile.

And as far as my perspective, I have spent a ton of money, time and years with different products (a great many of which you made). So as much as I have always given you the utmost respect, I would appreciate the same. Have a good one Andy.

 

[agedhorse]

The point is that other players have different needs than you have, therefore require the different features.

The active/passive switches on the Shuttles do absolutely zero to the tone, they simply extend/contract/shift the operating range of the gain control. In the Contour 500, this was replaced with an extended range gain control which is exactly the same circuit with the active/passive switch built into the gain control at each end of rotation.

 

[wave rider]

I like my Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12.0. It isn't small in size, but only weighs 6 pounds and is 1200 watts.

And THREE FX loops!

 

[Marko 1]

This amp, Peavey MiniMEGA is 1000 watts, and has (I think) all the features one would want. And I find the price (these days) to be very reasonable.

It's 9lbs though, and I don't see unpacked dimensions, so it might not fit in your gig-back pocket.

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[Michael Eisenman]

I owned one. It’s a very good amp, but the flat tone did y work for me with BG.
For EUB and DB it was great.
There is no fan in the amp, so it’s quiet,
but I did a private, outdoor gig with it in the and had to borrow a fan from the person hosting the party to keep the amp from going into thermal shut down.
Never an issue during loud, indoor gigs.

I’ve heard of this happening when the amp was under direct sun. Was that your situation?

 

[Thumpin6string]

And THREE FX loops!

Not an FX user so I don't use those.

 

[agedhorse]

Not an FX user so I don't use those.

They are also used for inserting outboard preamps into, the returns track the channel switching as does the post eq DI.

 

[Slevage]

I’ve heard of this happening when the amp was under direct sun. Was that your situation?

We were shaded, under a large tent,
Though it was about 90 degrees F.
I was only running (pretty hard) one 8 ohm cabinet. The amp can support a 2 ohm load. The I squared * R heating would have been even worse.
The pedestal fan remedied the situation.
Fan noise has never been a concern of mine.

 

[LowG]

I'd say though the great majority of people working in a home studio (or actually, any studio these days frankly) are not mic'ing a bass amp. And even so, you wouldn't leave anything making noise powered on when it's not in use if there's a chance it's gonna bleed into some other mic. Just turn it off.
Now if your head is noisy enough to actually be an issue when tracking the mic'd bass cab, then yeah, you gotta move the head away from the mic/cab and isolate it anyway.

And in a small home studio I often am tracking a vocalist or acoustic guitarist at the same time as a DId bass. I like using some amps as a DI in these cases, using the amp eq and sound to to the recorded track. I could give more situations…

I’m just trying to let people who scoff at fan noise being an issue understand that just because it isn’t an issue FOR YOU doesn’t mean the rest of us need to stop mentioning fan noise as a factor in our amp decisions.

 

[Geri O]

So as much as I have always given you the utmost respect, I would appreciate the same. Have a good one Andy.

The difference here is that Andy isn’t discounting or questioning what other players think they need or don’t need.

 

[Jazzdogg]

surprised Euphonic Audio micro amps or double is not on this list, feels like you are missing on a gem, especially for upright/doublers

Really sad that Acoustic Image and Euphonic Audio have called it quits. I have amps and cabs from both companies, and it's superb with both double bass and electric bass.

 

[Jazzdogg]

not to argue, but a speaker output wouldn't be TRS. im sure you meant standard TS phone jack.
anyways, i agree with you Neutrik is better. Combo is best and should be standard on everything,
and its really not much bigger than a phono. im sure they could have shoehorned it into the Elf.
Not that that was a deal breaker for me as i own two- head and 8" combo.
yes the fans are annoying. not that they're my biggest fans... right?

I agree on Speakons and combo Jacks. I also like the 1/4" / XLR combo input jacks on my AI Focus.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I'm assuming what Jazzdogg is asking "Why?" for is the ability to put an amp in a pocket (the quote of Marko's post doesn't include the quote from Apogee's post). It doesn't make me sad, heck, if I could put an amp in my gig bag I'd do it, one less thing to carry. Except it's also the power cord, and speaker cables taking up space in the bag. I'd have to buy new gig bags with more storage pouches

Fan noise certainly should be a concern, especially since we've been using fanless amps for an awful long time. Needing a fan for a tiny one just seems weird to me, especially since there are fan-free class Ds out there like Acoustic Image and Walter Woods. WW uses a good old ribbed heat sink, but AI doesn't even have that.

Yes! Why decry progress, especially when it's inevitable?

 

[Thumpin6string]

They are also used for inserting outboard preamps into, the returns track the channel switching as does the post eq DI.

Don't use those either.

 

[agedhorse]

Don't use those either.

Then the feature isn’t for you.

 

[frankie5string]

And THREE FX loops!

I remember seeing it used like three channels. I think the guy had six different flavours of bass preamp at his fingertips and some included compressors.