The death of jamming

[IamGroot]

Blues jams here with slow blues tunes that go on for 9 minutes.
I can't take it anymore, I would need heroin (lol) maybe to hang out more.

You will need to switch to jazz first.

 

[Wasnex]

I have another (humorous) thread going about jam bands. On a more serious note, I've been running jams for years, and probably always will. I'm saddened that so many people have lost the spirit of true jamming- Improvisation, and spontaneity.
Every week I end up with a bunch of GREAT players who just want to play songs. Maybe add a second (third...fourth) guitar solo, but the jamming aspect is all but gone.
I try to push my guests boundries, and a FEW of them get it. Go to double time feel, or a modulation, or switch up a groove- reggae Zeppelin, or metal Peaches and Herb.
I try to keep it interesting, and push peoples boundries.
I often just hit a brick wall. If it ain't on the record, they don't want to try it.
Too many automatons, not enough free spirits.
Another Pride and Joy.......in the same key as the record.....
Rant over.

Around 2008, I bought a MIM Strat and a bunch of pedals and taught myself to play the open chords and CAGED bar chords. I figured out major, minor and the 7th chords except diminished and half diminished. I don't know any songs, but I enjoyed jamming with my brother and also with my looper pedal. Mostly I just lay down a 2 to 4 bar progression and go for it. Sometimes I even add a bass line and layer the guitar parts. Unfortunately, the length of the loops has to be relatively short because I am using a Boss DD-7 as a looper.

I wouldn't want to go to a bar and jam though. Despite not knowing how to play guitar, I was a touring pro bassist for over two decades so I have a good ear and a solid musical foundation. If I am going to play in public, it's going to be polished or at least a song I know fairly well. I would take no joy whatsoever in playing free form noise publicly with people who lack skill unless they possessed some significant degree of musical sophistication.

Jamming was a lot of fun in my early 20s, but my intrinsic motivation has been shifted by time and experience as a working pro. To be honest, every time I have played at an open mic, it involved several people that I knew and played with regularly.

Jamming with really good players can be very humbling. The biggest problem is I don't have enough tunes memorized, or an effective systems for memorizing and cataloguing chord progression that would allow me to fake it better. IMHO, everybody else can get away with faking significantly more than the bassist. If the bassist doesn't know the progression, it will sound awful or the band will totally cave.

 

[Bass Man Dan]

One time after a gig we were set to break down our equipment and a homeless guy came in the bar with a harmonica. I don't remember how it got started but we all ended up jamming a good blues jam right then and there. I can't remember exactly what I played or how it sounded. But at least 2 decades later, I remember that it happened.
Spontaneity is the spice of life!

 

[3Liter]

@Wasnex you we’re a touring pro for 20years but can’t remember chord progressions? Does not compute.


What kind of music did you play?

 

[stringthrough]

I hate jamming. I view it as mostly aimless wanking by musicians who can't be bothered learning tunes.

 

[Wasnex]

The issue where I live is that people who are skilled enough to really improvise and do what OP is talking about are already in bands. They don't go to open jams on their night off. The people who go to those, 90% of the time, are inexperienced or underambitious players who want to stay in the safe zone of blues changes.

IMHO, Experienced players are more likely to "sit in" with a good group than jam at an open mic. I have sat in with many groups in my life. I think I have done the open mic thing once or twice, and it involved a few players from my band.

 

[Spectrum]

I guess my thing is I’m afraid to jam because I feel that lack the technical and theoretical fitness to do myself or the music justice. I’ve been trying to learn how to improvise or solo recently because it keeps coming up as something my musician friends want me to do when I do play out with them, but I’m finding it to be difficult.

So I’m trying to learning more songs to build up my mental catalogue of music, shapes and phrases. Hat way I can reach into the. And know the way to play a phrase if my head decides to invent one.

It’s not that I don’t want to or that I lack the creativity, I just lack the technique and skill right now. But I’m working on it.

I understand what you’re saying here, as in if you lack the knowledge or skill then keep practicing until you’re ready. I guess my question as a player who knows he isn’t confident would be, how do I learn? Do I look up jazz standards and study/ learn them? Is it scales?

Going to the jazz jam I mentioned earlier did the trick for me. The fact that way back when I was a teenager my teacher taught me some simple chord chart reading helped, as it came back to me eventually.

But it's tough, you have to find a jam where beginners are welcome and where it's okay to suck in front of people until you get better. The one I went to was like that, now it's done and gone and I know of no other like it around here. A lot of public jazz jams are populated by jazz dicks who have no patience for newbies, and they are in public venues where sucking may result in patrons heading for the door and an angry tavern owner.

If I were you, I would consider taking a few lessons with a jazz bass teacher. There is also a cool smart phone app called "iReal b" which is great for practicing improv bass lines at home over jazz standards. Also, maybe start with blues jams if there are any nearby. They are easier to pick up and since many jazz tunes are also blues tunes, it's a kind of gateway to jazz.

 

[Bass Viking]

I have another (humorous) thread going about jam bands. On a more serious note, I've been running jams for years, and probably always will. I'm saddened that so many people have lost the spirit of true jamming- Improvisation, and spontaneity.
Every week I end up with a bunch of GREAT players who just want to play songs. Maybe add a second (third...fourth) guitar solo, but the jamming aspect is all but gone.
I try to push my guests boundries, and a FEW of them get it. Go to double time feel, or a modulation, or switch up a groove- reggae Zeppelin, or metal Peaches and Herb.
I try to keep it interesting, and push peoples boundries.
I often just hit a brick wall. If it ain't on the record, they don't want to try it.
Too many automatons, not enough free spirits.
Another Pride and Joy.......in the same key as the record.....
Rant over.

A few years ago my high school celebrated 50 years and held a reunion for all the graduating classes. A jam session was organized for Friday night. You wouldn`t believe how many people wanted to rehearse for this event. They were treating it like it was American Idol! I don`t think they even knew what a jam session was.

 

[Wasnex]

@Wasnex you we’re a touring pro for 20years but can’t remember chord progressions? Does not compute.


What kind of music did you play?

I played in concert bands, orchestras, big bands, jazz trios, pop/rock bands, country bands, corporate/wedding bands, etc.

Typically I read music or played by ear. I never developed an effective numbering system to memorize chord progressions, so I find playing jazz standards as head charts to be very challenging. Pop music, 12 bar blues, and rhythm changes are no big deal. I had over six hours of material memorized when I ran my country group. I also sang a lot of hillbilly harmony.

A more sophisticated player would use a numbering system to analyze and memorize chord progressions. Over time, one recognizes that many tunes share chord progressions. So you might think of a new song you are learning as the verse progression from one song and the chorus progression from another.

Oh well...guess I was a hack. To be fair, at one time I was really good at faking it. People referred to me as "really solid" rather than awesome.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I guess your experience is different than mine. You are running a blues "jam" for which you are getting paid. Ia m going because I want to stretch and learn something new.. Most blues "jams" have a pretty limited role and skill set for bass players. When I first started playing, I went to blues jams and I learned. Now they are just boring as **** and I avoid them. Not so much a "jam" as being the back up band for mostly guitarists and vocalists.

Get a Real Book. Listen to some of the songs watching the written chart. For most of them, you don't have to read music - a few songs have written bass parts orintros, but for most, you are walking, and there are chords. You have to know scales, but you'll get there. It's not rocket science.

 

[Tony In Philly]

Improvisation is the highest form of the art, but it had better be moving and at least have some context. Otherwise it is as others have suggested nothing more than "wanky noodling".

 

[Schmo_bass]

I used to go to a jazz jam that was in a studio in an industrial park, no public audience, just a bunch of musicians on an email list: anyone can show up, just bring an instrument. Beginners (to jazz) welcome.

Now when I used to think of "jamming", I thought as some of you do, that it's just somebody noodling up a riff and you go on for 10 minutes until you get sick of it and maybe later it gets used as part of a song. That how most inexperienced rock musicians jam. Fun a for a few minutes to warm up, now can we get on with rehearsal, please?

This jazz jam was a whole different story.

1. There was a jam leader/director. He made sure that everyone who showed up got to play. Rotated drummers/bass players, etc. And he made sure we stuck to a structure.
2. There was a structure. We play the head once or twice, each instrument gets to solo around the head once, maybe trade fours with the drummer, then run through the head and finish the song. No pointless noodling, but every solo was improvised, the entire bass line was never played the same way twice.
3. Types of songs were rotated. Play a blues form, then play a swing tune, then maybe a latin tune, keep mixing it up. Change up tempos.
4. If we were all feeling it, we would sometimes put a different spin on a known tune. Playing Take the A Train with a New Orleans-style stomp rhythm instead of the big band swing, for example.

It was not easy, especially for a bass player. You were kind of on the spot all the time, because in jazz the world revolves around the bassist in many ways. It forced me to step up my game, and sometimes I felt like I was just barely hanging on for dear life to get through a tune. But in time, with PRACTICE (the magic word), I got more comfortable and then it was a blast.

If there was a rock version of that kind of jam session I'd be all over it. But a lot of rock musicians can't read chord charts on the fly, and rock songs themselves tend to be more scripted, whereas jazz is pretty much designed to improvisational and spontaneous, so it's tough to do this. Really good rock musicians practice their songs to play them consistently every gig, and have good technical skills, but improvising on the fly is not something most of us are comfortable with.

For the record I am still a rock bassist. My taste of jazz was and still is a lot of fun but I'm not a real jazz musician by any stretch.

Very well said. Jamming shoulf be a mix of playing just for sheer joy "in the flow" of music making with other musicians BUT ALSO a platform that gets us really pushes us to new levels. Wish i could find a session like that....!

 

[bassliner50]

I suggest playing with jazz players. The conventions are set up so that a theme and format are expected and strictly followed. The theme (head) is played as or near as written followed by the soloists who improvise on the theme and chord changes one by one sometimes trading 4 measures with the drums all to be concluded by intensely returning to the original theme. Plenty room to be creative without anarchy. Everyone knows the signals and what to expect. Musicians "know" or know of the typical tunes which can go beyond the contents of the Real Books. Certainly, improvisation occurs, and I consider it a "jam" occurring within convention and structure.

 

[AcridSaint]

I have another (humorous) thread going about jam bands. On a more serious note, I've been running jams for years, and probably always will. I'm saddened that so many people have lost the spirit of true jamming- Improvisation, and spontaneity.
Every week I end up with a bunch of GREAT players who just want to play songs. Maybe add a second (third...fourth) guitar solo, but the jamming aspect is all but gone.
I try to push my guests boundries, and a FEW of them get it. Go to double time feel, or a modulation, or switch up a groove- reggae Zeppelin, or metal Peaches and Herb.
I try to keep it interesting, and push peoples boundries.
I often just hit a brick wall. If it ain't on the record, they don't want to try it.
Too many automatons, not enough free spirits.
Another Pride and Joy.......in the same key as the record.....
Rant over.

Maybe a lot of the "get it" and they just don't want to play differently from the recorded version.

 

[Wasnex]

Maybe a lot of the "get it" and they just don't want to play differently from the recorded version.

Consider inexperienced players with only a few tunes committed to memory may not have the skill to follow along if the song varies too much from the recording. When you memorize several hours of tunes, it becomes a lot more difficult to play every song perfectly note for note. To be honest, I frequently prefer a good cover band's rendition of a song to the original recording. Veteran players often breath life into a piece that I find lacking in the originals.

 

[lordradish]

I love jamming. I'm good at it, but it also requires others be good at it, too, and not just wank.

 

[IamGroot]

Get a Real Book. Listen to some of the songs watching the written chart. For most of them, you don't have to read music - a few songs have written bass parts orintros, but for most, you are walking, and there are chords. You have to know scales, but you'll get there. It's not rocket science.

I have copies of all the unofficial Real Books, but they weren't allowed on any of the 100+ jazz gigs I played prior to 2008 (upright & electric). I think I know a few scales.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I have copies of all the unofficial Real Books, but they weren't allowed on any of the 100+ jazz gigs I played prior to 2008 (upright & electric). I think I know a few scales.

Sorry if I re-read your post. No offense intended. Some people here on different threads were discussing playing jazz and an alternative to blues jams as a way to stretch. Yeah, I've seen the "no real books aloud" attitude. I make it a point to learn as many standards as I can, but I think it's silly not to allow them.

 

[Mike Sorr]

Personally, I don't enjoy jamming at all. I noodle enough on my own. I don't need a group of other people doing it at the same time.

+1. I have quit bands because they wanted to take on more of a jam band feel. Personally, I don't like jam bands and I wouldn't be in one. I suppose I'm the exact type of song playing automaton the OP is talking about. Hey, to each their own.

 

[Paulabass]

^^ There's no right or wrong in music. You play it your way and I'll play it mine.
The only thing we have to agree on is keep live music happening everywhere. The crowd will follow.

 

[Joebone]

IME, there are a few different kinds of musicians: the note for note guys, the guys who follow structure but will add their own flare, and the guys who feel comfortable going off the cuff and will improvise.

Improvising (well) isn't easy to do. It requires a level of technical proficiency, theoretical knowledge, hearing ability, and, honestly, maturity to be able to do at a level that's at least enjoyable for others to take part in and for audiences to want to listen to. Even players who have the ability to do it might have trouble meshing well with other musicians unless they have played together beforehand.

It's unsurprising that a lot of players don't enjoy it or simply can't do it. However, it has been my experiences that once you do have the ability to improv well in a group setting that doing anything else can be less fulfilling of an experience. There is something special about being able to play a technically challenging song note for note and with perfect inflection, but it's something else entirely to have enough command of music as a language that you can communicate with others through it in a way that is exciting not only for the musicians but for people listening and watching it happen live.

Nicely put! This capability for communal expression is the essence of jazz mastery, but it need not be exclusive to jazz alone, which is one of the reasons that the better jam bands can be a lot of fun. Heck, go back to extended jams by Cream, or Hendrix doing his thing (although I'd have loved to have heard him with a bassist who approached Hendrix's level of creativity and expression). The truly heaviest are folks who can play free jazz with heart, insight and a genuine sense of structure collectively evolving on the fly, from the broadest possible range of pitch, rhythmic, dynamic and timbral choices.