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The death of jamming

Disclaimer. This is probably the most conceited thing I'll ever write on this website.

I like playing music with bands, but most of my bands don't jam at all, and I don't really care for jamming, either. I can do it, but... I would rather write, play, and try to refine songs and the arrangements to play them in fun, interesting ways. And to suggest that this somehow means I appreciate music at a lower level is a bit daft. I believe myself to be a good musician, and I believe myself to be a good songwriter. I come from the classical traditional where scores are written, and sure, you can improvise a grace note or a cadenza, but also, you compose full pieces. Then, I took jazz lessons and adapted to jazz, which, outside of free jazz, is often still pretty well defined in structure, though you do improvise, but jazz players know who the writers are. And even in a lot of "let's see what happens" kind of jazz, you often agree on scales and where you might go before you start playing. And now I play in the pop genre, which obviously has very defined songs, but I don't feel that it stifles me.

Maybe some people who prefer loose structure don't understand this, but there's an incredible amount of freedom in following a very rigid structure. This is why many poets choose to write sonnets. The structure of a sonnet is so restrictive at first, but once you have command of the structure, it actually guides you step by step. It is almost as though if you are trying to say something, the syllable and rhyme structure then help you distill what you're trying to say into something that can then fit into this neat, little box. It becomes a formula. Someone who only writes free verse can say whatever he or she wants, but when you're writing a sonnet, it's almost like you have a copilot.

So yeah, I can appreciate good, improvisational music. My issue with jamming in rock settings has always been that... in my experience, if the musicians aren't all that educated, a jam is only as creative as the least creative person in the room. And you need a lot of skill to battle inertia and for a group to start doing creative things. And because of that, the musical output is often unsatisfying for me, and ultimately not as complicated and interesting as something that one person sitting down and writing it from A to Z might have been able to come up with. And I guess I've never, ever been with musicians in a band where everybody was on that creative level. And if they're not on that level, someone please just tell them what to play. Does that sound bad? The creative process is honestly not that important for me if it's not producing output, and I don't care if it was dictatorial if the output is good, and I don't care that the process was beautiful and democratic if the output is predictable and repetitive. The output is what matters for me. Beethoven had an amazing life story that came with his music with his deafness and madness, but honestly, does it matter? You listen to that 7th symphony, and none of that story even matters, because the written notes are absolutely pristine.

And people who want to jam, I don't know, lot of times, I wish I could tell people that no, really, you really need to learn to read music, read Mozart, read Bach, learn to play Miles, learn to play Coltrane, and then come back to me, if you want to jam at a level that is even worth it for me. I need to believe that it's going somewhere to pour my heart and soul into it at real time, and I need to appreciate your chops as a musician and a writer before I even want to be part of a spontaneous creative process. If you can't keep up, it's not worth it. And that's because jamming is real time.

Even merely creatively collaborating with others is hard enough. At least, show me your best writing. Is it good? Do you write good changes when you sit down and write? If you can do all that, and then do it in real time, let's jam. It's like you don't want to see someone paint abstract because they can't paint realistic. You don't want to hear free poetry from someone who uses lack of structure as a crutch. But in my experience, I think most people who can write really well also just prefer to write and won't go up to another good writer and say, "let's jam." In fact, most writers often don't like it if you offer unwarranted suggestions, so even though I also play with people who are good writers, when they write, I let them alone unless they specifically ask me for an idea.

As for why I'm willing to let structure be my copilot, though, is because I respect structure and the traditions that they rise from. And the best part of playing pop music is that even though I never play the song the same way twice, there is enough structure to hide behind, and all of my improvisations and bad decisions don't derail the song.

So yeah. That's why I don't jam.
 
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I agree. I have never and will never go to an open jam. I guess it's because I've gone to friend's houses and jammed with people I don't know and never enjoyed it. Everybody standing around trying to figure out what to play, loud drawn out guitar solos, etc. No thanks.
Mike Campbell of The Heartbreakers always says "Don't bore us..get to the chorus". LOL
 
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The issue where I live is that people who are skilled enough to really improvise and do what OP is talking about are already in bands. They don't go to open jams on their night off. The people who go to those, 90% of the time, are inexperienced or underambitious players who want to stay in the safe zone of blues changes.
Often true, but not always. Sometimes they are people who are new to the scene/town and are trying to make some new friends and musical connections.
 
Has anyone ever hosted a jam? How did you get started at it? Where did you host it?

My first real band hosted a Tuesday night open mic at a local bar, every week for about 18 months. One of our guys knew the owner, who needed a reason to pick up a dead night.

It started as an open mic, but once we got comfortable and our natural tendencies to jam became known, it started drawing a different crowd and turned into an open jam. A dead night turned into Dead night. We just provided the drums and amps (and occasional guitar) and let whoever wanted on the stage. It was loose and fun. Eventually we started getting the same 10-12 musicians and their friends, and it was righteous. People showed up, bands got started, we had to learn tons on the fly, and the bar sold more drinks. Wins all around.
 
I had a band once that never rehearsed, rarely talked to one another, gigged regularly and even made money. It lasted for about 4 years and then it seemed we ran out of things to say to each other (musically) and it ended. Total improv all the time either on stage or in the studio. Never played the same thing twice. Sounded like this:

http://www.reverbnation.com/p3usa


The most fun I ever had in a band.
I like the Artist Bio. Funny stuff! "had to kill the engineer"
 
I remember the BL halted a song cuz the trumpet player played a wrong note in the head. Scary.

To me, that's a dick move to humiliate a musician in public like that, takes all the fun out of playing jazz, and is a reason why so many musicians are intimidated by jazz. It's a jam, not a rehearsed performance by an actual band, you have to make allowances for screw-ups, for cryin' out loud. If I was at a venue as an audience member and witnessed that, I'd leave.

I have heard of jazz jams in NYC where showing up with a real book gets you laughed out the door and so on. I love jazz, but I don't love all jazz musicians, and that's why.
 
To me, that's a dick move to humiliate a musician in public like that, takes all the fun out of playing jazz, and is a reason why so many musicians are intimidated by jazz. It's a jam, not a rehearsed performance by an actual band, you have to make allowances for screw-ups, for cryin' out loud. If I was at a venue as an audience member and witnessed that, I'd leave.

I have heard of jazz jams in NYC where showing up with a real book gets you laughed out the door and so on. I love jazz, but I don't love all jazz musicians, and that's why.

The old school guys could be really harsh. Probably had to be extremely thick skinned and talented to survive....or do heroin.
 
So I guess I had the wrong idea about jamming. I thought it was something you did if you weren't in a band currently, or wanted a venue to try and develop or hone your skills.

I thought jamming would be something I'd like to try. But ya'll have scared the crap out if me now.
If it ain't OK to resort to the the safety of a 12 bar blues then I'm really screwed. That was my only hope Obi-wan.
 
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To me, that's a dick move to humiliate a musician in public like that, takes all the fun out of playing jazz, and is a reason why so many musicians are intimidated by jazz. It's a jam, not a rehearsed performance by an actual band, you have to make allowances for screw-ups, for cryin' out loud. If I was at a venue as an audience member and witnessed that, I'd leave.

I have heard of jazz jams in NYC where showing up with a real book gets you laughed out the door and so on. I love jazz, but I don't love all jazz musicians, and that's why.
To me, that's a dick move to humiliate a musician in public like that, takes all the fun out of playing jazz, and is a reason why so many musicians are intimidated by jazz. It's a jam, not a rehearsed performance by an actual band, you have to make allowances for screw-ups, for cryin' out loud. If I was at a venue as an audience member and witnessed that, I'd leave.

I have heard of jazz jams in NYC where showing up with a real book gets you laughed out the door and so on. I love jazz, but I don't love all jazz musicians, and that's why.
That jam was a Moday night PRO jam, for the big dogs in town in the elite club in town. Their castle, their rules. It was a bit extreme, but it was a standard after all. This happened 16 years ago, btw and that jam session sid not make it a year.
 
I love jamming. When making a tune from scratch if I have a solid drummer, we can usually get through and make something enjoyable for everyone else to jump in on... my problem is when you get a musician (guitarists in particular) who spend way too much time just running scales in their bedroom, or a pianist who can play fast... but not well. No one tries to find a pocket or a groove, or use subtle changes to lead the music in any sort of direction. The inevitable is that I spend a lot of time trying to play around something with nO continuity, or as someone else put it, making a backing track for some to wank on with none of the feeling that what we're creating is a song. I feel like the art of dynamics is hard with musicians. I've been told I don't know enough music theory by a guitarist who doesn't listen, I've been told music shouldn't have structure by people who seem to think playing a different song in the same room as other musicians is art. I think jamming is best done with simple music and friends, or complex music and professionals. I think others have had similar difficulties, and hence have been turned off entirely. Total flip side of this is that for 5 years twice a week me and two friends got together and never played the same song twice, but recorded everything. Hours and hours of stuff... some music was great, most of it was bad but fun to make. The drummer was a great improviser whom I saw eye to eye with. The "guitarist" was terrible, but had a unique view on what music meant to him. He was also a prolific song writer... had boxes and boxes and boxes... literally 10's of thousands of songs and poems written on 4x7 cards during the course of a day over decades. Always something new, and always fun. I think few people have ever had such an experience... they only know the over indulgent jerk's, and so the best hammers relegate themself to loop stations in lieu of frustration.
 
I have another (humorous) thread going about jam bands. On a more serious note, I've been running jams for years, and probably always will. I'm saddened that so many people have lost the spirit of true jamming- Improvisation, and spontaneity.
Every week I end up with a bunch of GREAT players who just want to play songs. Maybe add a second (third...fourth) guitar solo, but the jamming aspect is all but gone.
I try to push my guests boundries, and a FEW of them get it. Go to double time feel, or a modulation, or switch up a groove- reggae Zeppelin, or metal Peaches and Herb.
I try to keep it interesting, and push peoples boundries.
I often just hit a brick wall. If it ain't on the record, they don't want to try it.
Too many automatons, not enough free spirits.
Another Pride and Joy.......in the same key as the record.....
Rant over.
Hey relax in my opinion you're just jamming with the wrong people!(musicians) I always encourage my students to try to soround them selves with musicians above there level or at the very least to be at there own level (especially when jamming!) WHY? So they'll be forced to keep up! wish =( progress!) or at the very least not sink down to a sh*ty level and play the catch up amatures night thing! wish = not progressing at all! and unfortunately eventually they'll experience frustrations ! (just like you are at the moment!) jamming with limited musicians will eventually bring you down to there level and worse of all you wont even notice it ! so just remember if feeling frustrated and you've got to step down to someone else level to keep it interesting then again, sorry I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're probably jamming with the wrong people ! (musicians!)
 
The issue where I live is that people who are skilled enough to really improvise and do what OP is talking about are already in bands. They don't go to open jams on their night off. The people who go to those, 90% of the time, are inexperienced or underambitious players who want to stay in the safe zone of blues changes.
That's pretty much the scene in my town. I enjoy jamming, really jamming, with good players but they usually don't come out, so it ends up being Mary Jane's Last Dance or the same 6 freaking Petty songs, at painfully high volume, played by guys who apparently never practice, who play them no better today than they did years ago.
 
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Then there are those moments.
The times when everything comes together. Times when everyone is listening to one another and everything clicks.
Happens with newbies and beginners setting out for the unknown for maybe the first time, happens with journeymen and pro's looking for that cool buzz that the structured stuff doesn't supply. It happens at all levels of skill. It can be mesmerizing and addictive. It can be better than sex or drugs or dangerous sports. The most important thing is looking for it. If you don't put some steel in your spine and head out for the great unknown you'll never get to feel it. Sure there are train wrecks along the way, lord knows that I've been center stage for some of them but if I hadn't gone looking for the those moments I'd never get to feel the truly inspiring ones. If you're afraid to try you'll never feel the joy of succeeding. And as we all know, music can supply loads of joy. If the public places near you can't supply the space and time to do it invite some people to do it in private. It really is worth looking for.
 
So I guess I had the wrong idea about jamming. I thought it was something you did if you weren't in a band currently, or wanted a venue to try and develop or hone your skills.

I thought jamming would be something I'd like to try. But ya'll have scared the crap out if me now.
If it ain't OK to resort to the the safety of a 12 bar blues then I'm really screwed. That was my only hope Obi-wan.

Freebird, Sweet Home Alabama, and Old Time Rock N Roll are probably just as common.
 
Then there are those moments.
The times when everything comes together. Times when everyone is listening to one another and everything clicks.
Happens with newbies and beginners setting out for the unknown for maybe the first time, happens with journeymen and pro's looking for that cool buzz that the structured stuff doesn't supply. It happens at all levels of skill. It can be mesmerizing and addictive. It can be better than sex or drugs or dangerous sports. The most important thing is looking for it. If you don't put some steel in your spine and head out for the great unknown you'll never get to feel it. Sure there are train wrecks along the way, lord knows that I've been center stage for some of them but if I hadn't gone looking for the those moments I'd never get to feel the truly inspiring ones. If you're afraid to try you'll never feel the joy of succeeding. And as we all know, music can supply loads of joy. If the public places near you can't supply the space and time to do it invite some people to do it in private. It really is worth looking for.
I hear you, but was it worth driving an hour to get there, and hanging around two hours to play 20 minutes , most times with mediocre results at best. Thats why i am done with most jams.