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The DI Feed; I must be missing something

bucephylus

bucephylus

Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2002
12,442
18,875
Central Ohio
#1
We have all this amazing gear these days; but, I have been trying to simplify, and have run into a bit of a surprising conundrum. The DI feed. Oddly I’ve been sending DI feeds for decades, and just throwing gear at what seems to be a basic gap.

So, my first Fail realization was that most amplifiers include the input volume knob in the pre EQ send to the board. Sorry, that’s a fail. What are they thinking? If I have an amp on stage, I do NOT want to be held captive to the FOH board for my knob twisting on the amp during the show. Just no.

OK, so, next step was to grab my passive DI box (Radial JDI) and put the send to the board ahead of the amp. Nope. No mute switch. Seriously? Who was thinking that no mute switch was a good idea? What happens between sets? You are supposed to leave the instrument plugged in the whole time? Again, that’s a Fail.

And, I get it that I can put a tuner in front of the DI box; but, I’m trying to simplify. Got enough cords to coil up at the end of the night. One more widget box with an AC adapter cord because it’s apparently too expensive to put a mute switch on a direct box is teeth grindingly frustrating.

I guess I might as well start hauling the pedal board. Which I was trying to get away from.

My $0.019: Amps should have direct sends independent of the front panel controls, or at least a switch to make that happen. Passive DI boxes should have a mute switch. Neither seem to be available.

Or am I missing something?
 
#3
Specific problems require specific solutions. Here's yours:
neutrik-np2x-au-silent-klinkenstecker_1_ACC0002418-000.jpg
 
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#4
Direct boxes don't have mute switches because they need to be as idiot-proof and/or as dependable as possible. If there is a mute switch, it will be engaged at times when it should not be. Think about it; how many professional sound reinforcement companies use mics with on/off switches on stage? If it CAN be turned off, it will be... and usually at the most inopportune time. Real sound people mute the inputs when the performers are done.

And it's been my experience that many, if not most amp DIs are pre-master fader; the Fender Rumbles are a notable exception that comes to mind. And while I agree that an amp's DI should be independent, how much knob twisting are you doing on stage? Do your volume changes require that much adjustment?
 
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#7
All my amps have "pre eq" and "post eq" switches on the back by the XLR out jack. With the switch set to "pre" nothing on the front panel operates, with the exception of the "mute" switch, which dose effectively kill all signals. Since going amp less I have been using the Mesa Subway + DI Preamp box. This box has 2 separate XLR outputs. One marked "Direct" the other "Preamp out". There is also a "pre" and "post" EQ switch. Also I can just flip the switch on my wireless and kill all signal.
 
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#12
bucephylus said:
We have all this amazing gear these days; but, I have been trying to simplify, and have run into a bit of a surprising conundrum. The DI feed. Oddly I’ve been sending DI feeds for decades, and just throwing gear at what seems to be a basic gap.

So, my first Fail realization was that most amplifiers include the input volume knob in the pre EQ send to the board. Sorry, that’s a fail. What are they thinking? If I have an amp on stage, I do NOT want to be held captive to the FOH board for my knob twisting on the amp during the show. Just no.

OK, so, next step was to grab my passive DI box (Radial JDI) and put the send to the board ahead of the amp. Nope. No mute switch. Seriously? Who was thinking that no mute switch was a good idea? What happens between sets? You are supposed to leave the instrument plugged in the whole time? Again, that’s a Fail.

And, I get it that I can put a tuner in front of the DI box; but, I’m trying to simplify. Got enough cords to coil up at the end of the night. One more widget box with an AC adapter cord because it’s apparently too expensive to put a mute switch on a direct box is teeth grindingly frustrating.

I guess I might as well start hauling the pedal board. Which I was trying to get away from.

My $0.019: Amps should have direct sends independent of the front panel controls, or at least a switch to make that happen. Passive DI boxes should have a mute switch. Neither seem to be available.

Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
I’ve owned six different amps that had integral DIs, and none of the six included the gain or volume in the pre-EQ setting of the DI. I suppose I’ve never seen a DI in an amp that did leave the gain or volume engaged when the DI was set to Pre-EQ.
 
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#13
In my experience, the most common, quick and simple way of muting (silently) without a mute switch, is to unplug the instrument cord at the amp/DI end first. Not as nice as a mute switch, but it works well enough 99% of the time.

One exception was an EBS head I used to have, which popped loudly if I unplugged without turning down first. But that amp had an unusual phantom power function, to power EBS pedals using a stereo cable, I think that was the culprit.
 
#14
gtirard said:
I must say that, as much as I love my Quilter Bass Block 800, I find that the XLR output being post everything is completely stupid and annoying, but I think most other amps leave you the choice.
Click to expand...

Definitely one of the drawbacks of an otherwise excellent little amp. It’s so small though, that I take a radial DI box along with me and just put that in front of it. To be fair most of the time the Quilter is actually on backup duty for me, but it’s great to know I have a kickass little amp ready should the Ampeg have a bad day.

Regarding the OP, get yourself a mini pedal board and put a Polytune or similar tuner up front to mute, then you DI box/preamp of choice. Many players have this setup, the swanky option being a Noble DI or similar. A passive Radial DI box will also sound just fine.

Regarding the amp’s volume changing the DI: you speak about input volume. Do you mean Gain? It may well be labelled as input volume but just want to clarify. Yeah, that will affect the volume of the DI on some amps, but not on my SVT 7 pro if the DI is set to pre EQ. However, why are you changing your stage volume with the input gain? Surely you could also use the master volume instead?
 
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#15
OK, I’m mainly using a Demeter Bass400 and a Mesa TT800. AFAIK, both “Pre” DI outputs are post the Input Gain stages.

TBH, I need to hook them both up at home to verify this. The Demeter, I’m 99% certain, having checked it at a recent gig. The Mesa, I’m going from the manual.

I’m kind of surprised by the responses about the lack of DI muting.
 
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#16
bucephylus said:
OK, I’m mainly using a Demeter Bass400 and a Mesa TT800. AFAIK, both “Pre” DI outputs are post the Input Gain stages.

TBH, I need to hook them both up at home to verify this. The Demeter, I’m 99% certain, having checked it at a recent gig. The Mesa, I’m going from the manual.

I’m kind of surprised by the responses about the lack of DI muting.
Click to expand...

I’m not familiar with the Bass 500. But the TT800 has 2 separate DI outputs. One is pre while the other is post EQ. I’m sure there was a reason (that evades me) to do it this way instead of just putting in a switch.
 
#17
bucephylus said:
I’m kind of surprised by the responses about the lack of DI muting.
Click to expand...

Just speaking for myself; I mean yeah, I agree in principle, I would appreciate having a mute button on my DI if I had the choice. But my main DI doesn’t have one, and I love everything else about it, so I just pull the cord halfway out to mute instead. It works, even if it’s less user friendly. YMMV of course.
 
#19
There are Rolls XLR mute switches that work at line and mic levels. The ones that I’ve seen don’t pop and can handle phantom power. Not sure if these are foot or button activated. Another slightly more expensive option is an XLR A/B box, one side can be left unconnected.
 

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