The DI Feed; I must be missing something

[bucephylus]

I have to point out: what you hear on stage, and what the audience hears in FOH are only vaguely related. You absolutely want the FOH engineer to tweak your sound during a show, because you have absolutely no idea how it sounds 20 ft in front of the stage. Even if you send post-EQ, the man at the soundboard generally has the tools to change that anyways. If you're trying to EQ for FOH from the amp, you're probably just causing problems downstream

Totally get the desire for a mute switch. I tend to just hit the meet switch on the amp.

My gigs are in clubs. We don’t employ a separate sound engineer. We set the FOH levels at sound check using wireless systems from the house. Then we do our sets. 4 hours worth. So, I’m just trying not to interfere with the levels that get set at sound check.

The wireless is battery driven. So, I like to turn that off between sets when not using a hard cable. The lack of mute switch on the DI causes a noticeable pop in the FOH when I turn the wireless off to conserve battery charge. That doesn’t seem like a good thing; nor does just unplugging a cable from the instrument seem like a good idea with no mute. But, that’s me. The moron.

 

[bucephylus]

I get that you're trying to simplify your set up. But, without a tuner, how do you tune between sets? Getting past that, doesn't your bass have a gain knob?.

Clip on tuner.

 

[Dave W]

The wireless is battery driven. So, I like to turn that off between sets when not using a hard cable. The lack of mute switch on the DI causes a noticeable pop in the FOH when I turn the wireless off to conserve battery charge. That doesn’t seem like a good thing; nor does just unplugging a cable from the instrument seem like a good idea with no mute. But, that’s me. The moron.

How about whoever runs the board mutes all the channels or drops the master faders?

 

[pepj]

Always say it is the point of the soundcheck.

 

[4StringDave]

To mute, just unplug your instrument cable or wireless from the amp between sets. It takes literally a second. Also, re gain stage, why would you be changing this during a gig? The point of gain is normally to set the input level for the amp to run at maximum efficiency without clipping. Master volume is for changing overall volume. My gain never changes if using same bass, and I never touch my master once set up for the gig and the overall band is balanced....

 

[Blue Swede]

My gigs are in clubs. We don’t employ a separate sound engineer. We set the FOH levels at sound check using wireless systems from the house. Then we do our sets. 4 hours worth. So, I’m just trying not to interfere with the levels that get set at sound check.

The wireless is battery driven. So, I like to turn that off between sets when not using a hard cable. The lack of mute switch on the DI causes a noticeable pop in the FOH when I turn the wireless off to conserve battery charge. That doesn’t seem like a good thing; nor does just unplugging a cable from the instrument seem like a good idea with no mute. But, that’s me. The moron.

Similar situation to mine, 3-4hr gigs with brief pauses. For me the simplest way would be to keep bass plugged in between sets. If you change the battery once every six months you should be fine.
I don’t know how long your pauses in between sets are, but surely they are only a fraction of the time that you are actually playing? So they should really
only have a very small impact on your battery life.

Other than that I agree with whoever mentioned muting the master fader ( or soloing whatever channel you have music playing from) in between your sets.

 

[Relsom]

Radial Stage Direct. It has a mute switch. Requires 15v or phantom power. It's been discontinued, but they're still out there.

 

[BlueTalon]

And, I get it that I can put a tuner in front of the DI box; but, I’m trying to simplify. Got enough cords to coil up at the end of the night. One more widget box with an AC adapter cord because it’s apparently too expensive to put a mute switch on a direct box is teeth grindingly frustrating.

I guess I might as well start hauling the pedal board. Which I was trying to get away from.

I have a tiny pedal board, the only things on it are my wireless receiver which doubles as a tuner, a HPF/LPF, and a power supply underneath. Half of the board is empty, but it's still worth having. When all I had was the receiver, it wasn't a big deal. Once I started using the HPF, it became a PITA to set up the two pedals and the jumpers and the power cables, and have them stay where I put them. It was worth it to me to invest in the pedal board just to save time and frustration setting up. Now, I plug it into power, plug it into the amp, and done. It even came with a little case.

Just adding a perspective you might find useful.

 

[Andy Marshman]

I prefer simplicity also. At least one of my amps has a DI independent of EQ and Vol. You just have to take note of that spec.
If you use the parallel inputs of a typical passive DI box, sending the guitar to the amp at the same point as to the PA, then turn the volume control(s) down on your instrument during intermission. Or, as someone pointed out, use a cord with the kill switch built in. If going wireless, turn the transmitter off during breaks.

 

[monkeyland]

What happens between sets? You are supposed to leave the instrument plugged in the whole time?

I rarely ever unplug between sets, only if I'm switching basses. Otherwise just turn the volume down and do what I need to do. That would be sufficient but I also hit the mute switch on my mesa subway. That amps DI is pregain when it's set to preEQ.

 

[bucephylus]

I rarely ever unplug between sets, only if I'm switching basses. Otherwise just turn the volume down and do what I need to do. That would be sufficient but I also hit the mute switch on my mesa subway. That amps DI is pregain when it's set to preEQ.

That makes good technical sense. OTOH, I’m reluctant to suggest to other folks how to do the task they have already sorted out. If that makes sense.

 

[bucephylus]

I have a tiny pedal board, the only things on it are my wireless receiver which doubles as a tuner, a HPF/LPF, and a power supply underneath. Half of the board is empty, but it's still worth having. When all I had was the receiver, it wasn't a big deal. Once I started using the HPF, it became a PITA to set up the two pedals and the jumpers and the power cables, and have them stay where I put them. It was worth it to me to invest in the pedal board just to save time and frustration setting up. Now, I plug it into power, plug it into the amp, and done. It even came with a little case.

Just adding a perspective you might find useful.

Agreed. I’m kind of coming to the conclusion that I may just go back to my pedalboard with the preamp on it. Which is a bit of a shame, because I really like the amps.

 

[BlueTalon]

One other thing you might find useful. I typically don't unplug my bass during a gig, but I like being prepared, so I had a wireless connector cable made that has a Neutrik silent plug. In gigs where I've switched basses at some point during the gig, it was very handy to be able to unplug without worrying about muting anywhere else.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

The wireless is battery driven. So, I like to turn that off between sets when not using a hard cable. The lack of mute switch on the DI causes a noticeable pop in the FOH when I turn the wireless off to conserve battery charge.

I do the same. I also switch basses during a set on occasion. A pedal tuner mutes everything.

 

[bucephylus]

Thanks for everyone’s replies; even the somewhat condescending ones. The discussion actually helped me think through the issues.

Seems to me that my main issue is actually the clip on tuner. Which, I know that may sound laughable at first. But, before those emerged, I always had a tuner with a mute at the front of the signal chain, either in my rack or on the floor. Problem solved. When I started using the “newer” amps and the clip on tuner, I was blissfully unaware of the signal chain issue. Turning input volume down or muting the amp in the case of the TT800 kind of obscured the issue.

And, I understand what @agedhorse had in mind for the Input Gain circuit. I dig that amp; but, I really don’t want knobs on the front of the amp that mess with the signal going to the board. My issue.

Anyhow, I’m back to the pedalboard with the tuner / mute button and preamp on it. It’s all good. Those of you who just leave the instrument plugged in between sets etc, please carry on.

 

[Wfrance3]

Just ran into this myself.
My solution: SCR-DI
Ampeg – Bass guitar amplification
Has enough ins and outs to make anyone happy. Yea, it’s another thing to set up/pack up, but I already have a floor tuner, so stick both on a pedaltrain nano and it’s not that big of a deal.

 

[HolmeBass]

To the OP, I will ask again: Why do you need a mute switch? Why is it important to unplug your bass in between sets? Why not just turn the volume controls down?

Active bass, preserve battery.

 

[jdjk7]

We have all this amazing gear these days; but, I have been trying to simplify, and have run into a bit of a surprising conundrum. The DI feed. Oddly I’ve been sending DI feeds for decades, and just throwing gear at what seems to be a basic gap.

So, my first Fail realization was that most amplifiers include the input volume knob in the pre EQ send to the board. Sorry, that’s a fail. What are they thinking? If I have an amp on stage, I do NOT want to be held captive to the FOH board for my knob twisting on the amp during the show. Just no.

OK, so, next step was to grab my passive DI box (Radial JDI) and put the send to the board ahead of the amp. Nope. No mute switch. Seriously? Who was thinking that no mute switch was a good idea? What happens between sets? You are supposed to leave the instrument plugged in the whole time? Again, that’s a Fail.

And, I get it that I can put a tuner in front of the DI box; but, I’m trying to simplify. Got enough cords to coil up at the end of the night. One more widget box with an AC adapter cord because it’s apparently too expensive to put a mute switch on a direct box is teeth grindingly frustrating.

I guess I might as well start hauling the pedal board. Which I was trying to get away from.

My $0.019: Amps should have direct sends independent of the front panel controls, or at least a switch to make that happen. Passive DI boxes should have a mute switch. Neither seem to be available.

Or am I missing something?

My amp includes the option to have the DI out from pre-EQ (none of the amp controls affect the sound), post-EQ (all the amp controls affect the sound, but not the power amp), and a transformer balanced line out from the power amp.
All that said, the reason most amps probably wouldn't include a pre-EQ option is because it really doesn't sound as good in many contexts, unless you're running amp/cab simulation at your FOH, in which case you are fancier than me. The only reason my amp offers it is because it's meant to sort of a studio amp that needs to have all the options. Of the three options my amp affords me, the third one is my consistent choice. If I'm gonna spend the extra $$$ on an amp that sends a DI, the least I'd want is for it to sound like the amp.

Now, a more specialist feature might be the option to engage a fixed-gain mode on the DI so that your volume adjustments don't affect FOH. I think that's a totally valid complaint/suggestion.
(After posting this, I just realized that it would have to be fixed gain at the preamp, so that only the master volume would affect the sound instead of the gain knob-- derp)

As for the DI box, I know for a fact that somebody makes a DI box with a mute switch, but not every DI box comes with a mute switch because not everybody wants or needs one. I can tell you from experience that some dude would complain about it being there because he spent 15 minutes troubleshooting why he had no sound only to realize that the "stupid mute on his stupid DI" was engaged. That being said, if you knew you needed a mute switch and you bought a DI without one, that's on you and you alone.

If you want to mute your signal for instrument changes without added equipment, just pull the instrument cable out of the amp like 3/4'' to 1'', to where it still sits in the amp but doesn't make contact. This is standard practice at a lot of the jams in my area, and it works really well. Do that for instrument changes and roll the volume to 0 for situations where you're not changing your instrument. Dead simple.

 

[Dave W]

OTOH, I’m reluctant to suggest to other folks how to do the task they have already sorted out. If that makes sense.

I’m just curious, does whoever is running the board mute the mics during break? If yes, why not mute everything?

If no, leaving a hot mic on the stage during break is an invitation for some drunk dope to go up and stage and make a fool out of the band.

Going back to a pedalboard is a great idea even if it is one more thing to set up. Simply the board as much as possible so it’s minimal work. My PSU cable is always plugged into the board so I just take it out of the car and plug it in, then plug in a cable going to the amp. My wireless is right on the board.

 

[AndyLES]

Just get a pedal tuner. Yeah, I know you want to simplify, but beware Menger's Law:

"Entities must not be reduced to the point of inadequacy; it is vain to do with less what requires more."