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The DI Feed; I must be missing something

#61
We play big venues. Everything goes through the FOTH, and we have a sound engineer.

All the microphones have their switch taped over so they can not be accidentally muted.

I go straight to the board, as do the keyboards. Guitars are mic'd. Drums are electronic. There are 11 of us on stage. We all wear IEMs.

I have no control over my volume or tone and that's for the best. Same for everyone but the guitar players, and they have very minimal control.

As others have said, what you hear on stage is not what the wedding guests hear, and they're the customer. You have to trust the sound engineer.
 
#62
bucephylus said:
Thanks. I know and respect Andy.

From the manual:
“PRE-EQ DIRECT OUTPUT:
This output is pre-channel gain stages, but is a little unique due to some enhanced features that make it more useful for many practical applications. The signal take-off point for this output is post front end gain, post deep and post bright switches as well as being tube driven by the very first tube stage.”

My read of “post front end gain” means that the input volume knob affects the send to the board. But, I’m perfectly happy to hear that I am wrong.

BTW, my Demeter amps do the same thing. While I am completely pleased by the tonality of these amps, I’m just trying to work around having a volume knob on the send to the FOH. My Demeter VTDI has no volume knob, and still sends a tube driven Jensen DI to the board. But, again.that’s a separate box. Doesn’t seem weird to me to prefer to have a non-volume knob affected send to the DI. But, if folks want to decide I’m a moron for preferring that aspect, then have at it.

I do understand the TT800 Channel Gain can be used to adjust stage volume, independent of DI send.
Click to expand...
The gain controls on the TT do NOT affect the Pre DI signal.
 
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#63
Well IMO if you add a mute button or gain knob, then it is a DI no more, DI = direct injection. The only solution seems to be tuner like a BOSS TU3 before the DI for your particular situation.

I just looked at my Bassbone V2 which has a D1 and the boost function can be configured to be a mute and one of the channels has a TMB EQ while the other one is flat and 2 preshape. So this could even be closer to fulfill your needs

For my Baritone sax gigs. I have been using a NUX wireless mic system and those have a mute button and the battery life is long certainly more than 4 hours - I have forgotten to turn it off after a gig and they still are good the following morning. Rechargeable too. I believe they make one for guitar/bass. The mute on the NUX does not create any pop. They are affordable
 
#64
el murdoque said:
Specific problems require specific solutions. Here's yours:
Click to expand...

Be careful using the “Silent” connectors with an active bass. With some jacks the ground release ring will open just as the tip of the plug is passing the battery ground prong on the jack causing very loud pop from your amp.

With passive basses and guitars they work well. Just be careful with active basses mute the amp first. Same thing with the DI feed.
 
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#65
bucephylus said:
Thanks for everyone’s replies; even the somewhat condescending ones. The discussion actually helped me think through the issues.

Seems to me that my main issue is actually the clip on tuner. Which, I know that may sound laughable at first. But, before those emerged, I always had a tuner with a mute at the front of the signal chain, either in my rack or on the floor. Problem solved. When I started using the “newer” amps and the clip on tuner, I was blissfully unaware of the signal chain issue. Turning input volume down or muting the amp in the case of the TT800 kind of obscured the issue.

And, I understand what @agedhorse had in mind for the Input Gain circuit. I dig that amp; but, I really don’t want knobs on the front of the amp that mess with the signal going to the board. My issue.

Anyhow, I’m back to the pedalboard with the tuner / mute button and preamp on it. It’s all good. Those of you who just leave the instrument plugged in between sets etc, please carry on.
Click to expand...
This sounds like a reasonable approach. Like you, I don’t like to unplug my bass in between sets – I also change between upright and electric very often, so have a switch box as I would definitely get confused if I had to keep plugging and unplugging. Without really trying, I have three ways to mute – one is on my amp
,one is a tuner on the pedal board, which I’ve set to be always on or step to mute, and then my pre-amp, a Mesa subway plus, has a mute on it as well. Like you, I think that using the volume control on the bass is not a good solution as it means you’re changing potentially the settings without really being aware of it. I’m really not bothered by the fact that the DI level is controlled by the master volume on my pre-amp/DI, since once it’s set, it rarely gets changed.
 
#66
Ok - I better understand what you are looking for now.
The Tech21 Invalid Link Removed has a Pre-XLR EQ, a tuner/mute switch built in. You will need to run external power for them. I have a DP-3 (same chassis) and it's a great pedal, a little too metal for most (including me at most gigs) but would do everything you want at roughly the size of a Chromatic Harmonica
 
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#68
getBAK said:
I have to point out: what you hear on stage, and what the audience hears in FOH are only vaguely related. You absolutely want the FOH engineer to tweak your sound during a show, because you have absolutely no idea how it sounds 20 ft in front of the stage. Even if you send post-EQ, the man at the soundboard generally has the tools to change that anyways. If you're trying to EQ for FOH from the amp, you're probably just causing problems downstream

Totally get the desire for a mute switch. I tend to just hit the meet switch on the amp.
Click to expand...
The way I do it, it’s way more than vaguely.
 
#69
mborn said:
Be careful using the “Silent” connectors with an active bass. With some jacks the ground release ring will open just as the tip of the plug is passing the battery ground prong on the jack causing very loud pop from your amp.

With passive basses and guitars they work well. Just be careful with active basses mute the amp first. Same thing with the DI feed.
Click to expand...
Yes. This ^
Silent Switch warns in their literature to not use their device following an active stage, aka the guts in your active bass.
 
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#71
bucephylus said:
Thanks very much for the clarification, Andy. I just haven’t had a chance to check it out and was going by the manual, which seems possibly misleading on this point. Otherwise, a fantastic manual.
Click to expand...

I think the manual says the "Pre" DI takes it's feed directly off the input buffer. That's a pretty neat way to do it because you can still use the input control to overdrive the preamp and get your sound with it on stage - while still sending an ultra clean, buffered signal to the DI.
 
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#72
frankie5string said:
I think the manual says the "Pre" DI takes it's feed directly off the input buffer. That's a pretty neat way to do it because you can still use the input control to overdrive the preamp and get your sound with it on stage - while still sending an ultra clean, buffered signal to the DI.
Click to expand...
It's a combination of things.

One thing that I wanted to capture was the essence of some tube gain stage feel and dimensionality as well as keeping the variable gain control out of the equation. Kind of the best of both worlds compromise. This is done by slipping the gain up into two stages, the first being fixed, based around a mild operating point gain stage and the second being variable gain with the ability to enter saturation (if desired). This is why I mentioned "unique" in the description. The point was to be a little different without becoming a problem for the sound guys.
 
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#74
Wild Rice Chris said:
So a more accurate way to think of it would be post gain stage, pre gain knob?
Click to expand...
Kind of, but by splitting the gain into two stages I was able to get the "best" of both worlds for those who are enamored with tube driven DI's.
 
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#79
Pilgrim said:
The complaint seems the very definition of why tuner pedals mute when stepped on to tune.

One pedal, cable and power source - when the pedal (or its equivalent) is necessary anyway?

It's Shakespeare time: much ado about nothing.
Click to expand...
OK. But, I stated up front that my intent was to eliminate said pedal, cable, and power source. So, really, nothing to see, move along….
 
#80
Seems like I broke a cardinal rule, shooting off my mouth here before getting the data.

In terms of my TT800, apologies to Andy @agedhorse , as it seems I was completely mis-reading the otherwise outstanding user manual. The way that amp works, the Pre DI Send does include the front panel toggle switches, but none of the other controls. In fact, a truly brilliant design. I should have checked out the amp first through my small PA before saying anything. Guess that’s what happens when one reads books too much.

My Demeter amp actually appears to have something mis-wired on the inside and is headed back to the shop for corrective action. Again, I ought to have touched base with the shop before shooting my mouth off.

I’ll have to try to remember not to assume I know what I’m talking about.

Meanwhile, I’ll be gigging the TT-800. Tough life.
 
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