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The ethics of Kemper profiling amps

#81
jnewmark said:
It's interesting. What would you have Kemper owners do, say to copy the Fender Twin ? Ask around locally to see if you can borrow one from somebody ? Or, actually go out and buy a Twin, copy it, and then try to resell it ? Of course, people are going to get a new Twin and return it; it's the easiest way to do it. On the one hand you have Kemper who came up with this technology, basically saying, " Hey everybody, no need to go out and buy a bunch of different amps anymore, just copy them into our devise and be done with it." On the other hand you have the Kemper owner who now says, " Well how the hell am I gonna copy that Ampeg unless I go buy one and return it afterwards ? "
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Kempers come with a pretty complete library of models to begin with.

I only know a couple of Kemper owners and they chose to model amps they already owned in order to keep the heavy tube amps home and make their lives easier. They have not purchased anything just to model it and return it and they both make extensive use of the models that came with the unit. That's just two people I happen to know, and I'm not going to try to speak for everyone.

In my opinion, this technology can still be very useful to someone without resorting to dubious means.
 
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#82
Times change, technology changes, no company has a right to an infinite existence. Google the original Dow Jones companys.

Change is the only thing you can count on. Might as well accept the fact the one day, a product you really like, won't be the same.
 
#83
onlyclave said:
Why should you get a return policy?

Sonos (www.sonos.com) states in their dealer agreement that Sonos direct dealers have NO right of return. Period. They don't even have a RMA department because Sonos does not take returns.

Why should a retailer be different?
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As stated in the video, in Europe, it is the law that you must offer a 30 day no questions asked return guarantee for online purchases.
 
#84
Sort of agree that the digital age is truly apon us but......If you do not have the physical ability to create the sound you do not have it.
It all good having its profile, but that profile can be wiped, or lost.
A very well known producer said of digital technology, "If you do not own two, then you did not own one".
I have digital music on downloads on Hard Drives and have lost it all via a virus, hack, or just simple computer failure.
When i lost my collection first time it was a strange feeling, the drive was corupted and all info on it gone.....just like that. In physical terms you would have had to backed up a lorry and spent hours removing my albums to get the same result...but one minute they were there...then they were not.

I use Line 6 Ampeg modeling in the studio, because it sounds like Ampeg, but does not feel like it...so no baffling, isolation rooms, etc to control the vibration and bleed....it just sounds like an Ampeg.
So far no one has ever commented on it not sounding like an Ampeg on recordings, and becuase i am known for recording with Ampegs everone assumes it is my rig.
Having a tone or sound is one thing, but feeling it and known what to do with it is another.
 
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#85
onlyclave said:
Why should you get a return policy?

Sonos (www.sonos.com) states in their dealer agreement that Sonos direct dealers have NO right of return. Period. They don't even have a RMA department because Sonos does not take returns.

Why should a retailer be different?
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From the sonos.com website, looks like they have a 45-day return policy...

Screen Shot 2016-02-13 at 7.57.54 PM.png
 
#87
Big Heavy Bass said:
More and more bands are touring with this type of technology, wha'ts going to be interesting is when some famous guitar player has his sound "stolen" and put all over the internet without his or her permission.
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Isn't that already happening? Mostly it's called advertising. (Yeah, I understand the "permission" part doesn't quite fit. But I'm not sure how you can protect a tone.)
 
#88
MultiScaleMale said:
Then I probably wouldn't buy from Sonos. The return policy is offered to allow you to make sure the item works for you. The retailer is gambling that they'll sell more that way than if they had no return policy. I've only used the return policy a handful of times, but I've not purchased from a local retailer many times mostly because they have an all sales final policy.
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MultiScaleMale said:
From the sonos.com website, looks like they have a 45-day return policy...

View attachment 797761
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Not Sonos, an independent Sonos dealer. Pay attention.
 
#91
Not sure how this is any different than selling the sound sample disks used with sampling keyboards and synth modules, which happen to be both legal and ethical.

However, I'm one more who agrees that buying and returning an amp to sample is wrong.

Give it a while. Every amp sound will eventually be available for purchase on disk.
 
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#92
It does kinda suck that, say, Line 6 can sell model packs of five metal amps and make $19.95 or whatever for their work, but the companies that created the amp get zilch. Oh, but if you try to copy their models circumventing their DRM, I'm sure they wouldn't think that's fine. A little ironic, dontcha think? And I'm not singling out Line 6, just using them as an example.
 
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#93
If you can't copyright or patent an electric circuit (which produces the sound) then you have zero chance of claiming theft via kemper. He claims that intellectual property is being stolen but I have to ask if he is making an analogy or does intellectual property law actual apply to amps?

He brings up the fact that without the amps the kemper has no sound. So, then don't mass produce amps. Sell the profile instead.



Another thing to consider is that classical musicians do not have these problems.
 
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#96
MultiScaleMale said:
It changes the number of returns and potentially kills the return policy for others.
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I did not know that there were enough users of modellers like kempers, to make a notable difference between the "try and return" behaviour so often promoted here.

(i agree, it's sleazy- but i know someone who went through several (6) sunburst Squiers, to get an acceptable "match" between the 3 pieces of the body)
 
#99
onlyclave said:
Well you know about 5 times a week in the Basses thread someone asks "What's the most versatile bass for X?" Maybe she didn't want to be tied down by a Deluxe Reverb.
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The many tones that she brings out of her Taylor acoustic are representative of what musicians bring out of their "one" sound Fenders, Marshalls, Fuchs, etc.

It's what you do with your fingers.

If you think other wise I respect that. Meanwhile Segovia didn't have a Line 6. Or in our case, Ron Carter, Miroslav Vitous etc.

See that Deluxe or in our case that one sound bass amp, is just the beginning. It's where you make your own tone appear. It's not something you can buy.
 

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