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indeed. The physics of tube, and indeed silicon, technology dictate the basic designs (class A, B, A/B). Without a power/voltage source, appropriately set bias, an 'in range' input signal and an appropriate load it does not work.
Can you patent a preamp and power amp design and circuit? If so all the big companies should do that to prevent it.
the only ethics question in play here, and has been stated ad nauseum has NOTHING to do with the Kemper (or modelling) it has to do with the behaviour or buying an amp for the express purpose of modelling it, and returning the amp.
Is this different (in practice outside of the individual's motivation) than the common practice, HECK a promoted practice HERE and elsewhere of buying a product, sight unseen, to try it.... and then return it when it was not what you wanted?
Why/How is this distinction (the purchaser/returner) different in actual impact to the shop owner? to the Maker?
Is this different (in practice outside of the individual's motivation) than the common practice, HECK a promoted practice HERE and elsewhere of buying a product, sight unseen, to try it.... and then return it when it was not what you wanted?
Why/How is this distinction (the purchaser/returner) different in actual impact to the shop owner? to the Maker?
Actually, I remember a story someone told on here years ago about a guitarist they knew who bought a brand new Marshall and then took a knife to the tolex to make it look "punk rawk."
Some Brand names are getting on board
Mark Bass, Orange, Gallen Krueger, Orange, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Carvin, Fender, Peavey, on and on ...
All have "Certified" models of their amps. They may not be Kemper profiles but they are real, ear tuned models of a golden hardware versions of their amps. If I buy and Mesa Boogie certified model, I own a Mesa Boogie amp.
Other brand names aren't smart enough to move with the times. These still get modeled and sold as some nickname, or "Inspired by" model. Peavey Revalver is full of "other" non endorsed models. The icon hints of the original amp, the icon label is some nickname of the amp. It's going to happen if you're not controlling you signature sound.
Get on board companies. Get you golden versions of your amps/effects/cabs model and release modeling solutions. You've spent time building history and promoting your "signature sounds". Archive them. Make them available to more musicians as official certified models. Don't get rolled over by the technology, get in and drive it.
Keep your name and control on you signature sound. When the models are good, and someone wants to buy the hardware they'll already know what sound they want and what brand of hardware to buy.
Mark Bass, Orange, Gallen Krueger, Orange, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Carvin, Fender, Peavey, on and on ...
All have "Certified" models of their amps. They may not be Kemper profiles but they are real, ear tuned models of a golden hardware versions of their amps. If I buy and Mesa Boogie certified model, I own a Mesa Boogie amp.
Other brand names aren't smart enough to move with the times. These still get modeled and sold as some nickname, or "Inspired by" model. Peavey Revalver is full of "other" non endorsed models. The icon hints of the original amp, the icon label is some nickname of the amp. It's going to happen if you're not controlling you signature sound.
Get on board companies. Get you golden versions of your amps/effects/cabs model and release modeling solutions. You've spent time building history and promoting your "signature sounds". Archive them. Make them available to more musicians as official certified models. Don't get rolled over by the technology, get in and drive it.
Keep your name and control on you signature sound. When the models are good, and someone wants to buy the hardware they'll already know what sound they want and what brand of hardware to buy.
I prefer the real deal. To the listener it might not make a difference but not a single modeler I tried has the response or character of the amp, which inspires me to play rather then just makes me sound good. The mere idea of profiling my amp is hilarious really.
Kemper, Line6, axefx, Zoom etc. It just isn't for me. They may mimic great amps but won't come close any time soon.
Kemper, Line6, axefx, Zoom etc. It just isn't for me. They may mimic great amps but won't come close any time soon.
Sort of what I was trying to get at, ( I think ). What are you supposed to do, as an owner of the Kemper, if you want to clone a Twin ? Buy it ? Sort of defeats the purpose. Borrow one ? What if there isn't one in you area to borrow ? How do you do it, short of doing the unethical ( according to some ) ? Should Kemper issue some sort of ethical statement like, " Hey , we know that since you now own our device, you all want to go out and start cloning every amp known to man ( without having to buy one, hopefully ), but do it in an ethical way ?
Somebody used the analogy of a Kemper being like a tape recorder. There's no harm in a tape recorder, until you start bootlegging with it. Maybe the question of ethics should be turned back on the owners, not the manufacturer.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
the fault is with Return policies .. !! you wanna try something out ,... Rent it .. ! i don't wanna buy something that is supposedly ' brand new ' only to find out it has been slightly used .. !! that's BS .. !
a hefty restocking fee would serve as Rent and keep people from doing this constantly ... and then part of that restocking fee should be passed along to whomever buys the item next .. ! ( open box return ) ...
a hefty restocking fee would serve as Rent and keep people from doing this constantly ... and then part of that restocking fee should be passed along to whomever buys the item next .. ! ( open box return ) ...
But, in the internet age, many "bootlegs" are shared FREELY (like back in the day, one of the more affluent schoolmates buying the latest album, and you'd go to their house, and listen to it while recording it) or the 80's when many radio stations would play albums in their entirety, and i'd be there with my stereo, and a cassette recording them.
There is no discernible difference. Kemper is only providing the tape deck. Their brand name or product is no more responsible for the practice, than Sony, Or Maxell, Or Apple, or Napster, or -- or---
It is just the way technology progresses.
Synthesisers sample via a microphone, could i sample and reproduce an approximation of a Stradivarius? is it wrong?
Sample a sound bite of a rainstorm? A speech by JFK? A fart? ETC
It's kind of odd that the 30 minute rant is based on the assumed condition that Kemper does a perfect 100% profile on other the amps, which the person goes to remind us many times throughout the video that he is not impressed, so his opinion is that it does not. The person goes to name drop a bunch of people that he has befriended on the amplifier industry, so his argument favors the amplififer companies that are losing money due to profiling. Anyways, the is all great because it gives us, the consumers more options. If you like the sound of an Ampeg Classic, but just wished that it had a little more of this and less of that, the Kemper might be your answer. Jim Marshall took a Fender amp and gave it a little bit of this and less of that, and this is now Marshall Amplifications.
We embrace the technology that allows us to order online from our homes with a click of the switch, or post a rant on youtube, but are knocking that same technolgy that figured a way, or a loophole to profile amps. Everything will have to evolve.
So this discussion is similar to the "support your local orchestra" argument. You have to support your local orchestra because they need fundings to survive or else we will no longer have orchestra concerts; it will be a dying art. Well I think the people have spoken, the public chose to pay $100 to hear Justin Beiber than to pay to hear the orchestra. Why are we fighting the inevitable? We have this great forum for bassist, Talkbass of course, but I am unaware of a forum for tuba players. Since it's unfair for the tuba players worldwide, so should we boycott Talkbass unless there are more tuba forums? There are people who embrace change, then there are people who are afraid of it. Why do I have to worry about, say Soldano, getting paid for their intellectual property? If Soldano goes down, then that opens up room for another company to come in and blow our minds with their products. Vaccum tubes were supposed to go away to the new and more reliable solid state technology, but we musicians still choose to buy tube amps.
Switchboard operators, cassette players, and VHS players are all obsolete. Should we have fought harder to supress the technology that was threatening to layoff thousands of switchboard operator? Should we have say no to DVDs because...well what will we do with our huge box collection of VHS tapes? Don't fear competition because competiton is what pushes people to innovate! That's why patents and copyrights have a limited period before they expire, to promote more innovation. Not for the great mind to simply invent one product and just sit on it. The amplifier companies will figure out a way to survive. If not, then it will fall to the digital profiling. If it was truly illegal to profile amps, than those companies would have sued Kemper already, if they haven't already done so.
We embrace the technology that allows us to order online from our homes with a click of the switch, or post a rant on youtube, but are knocking that same technolgy that figured a way, or a loophole to profile amps. Everything will have to evolve.
So this discussion is similar to the "support your local orchestra" argument. You have to support your local orchestra because they need fundings to survive or else we will no longer have orchestra concerts; it will be a dying art. Well I think the people have spoken, the public chose to pay $100 to hear Justin Beiber than to pay to hear the orchestra. Why are we fighting the inevitable? We have this great forum for bassist, Talkbass of course, but I am unaware of a forum for tuba players. Since it's unfair for the tuba players worldwide, so should we boycott Talkbass unless there are more tuba forums? There are people who embrace change, then there are people who are afraid of it. Why do I have to worry about, say Soldano, getting paid for their intellectual property? If Soldano goes down, then that opens up room for another company to come in and blow our minds with their products. Vaccum tubes were supposed to go away to the new and more reliable solid state technology, but we musicians still choose to buy tube amps.
Switchboard operators, cassette players, and VHS players are all obsolete. Should we have fought harder to supress the technology that was threatening to layoff thousands of switchboard operator? Should we have say no to DVDs because...well what will we do with our huge box collection of VHS tapes? Don't fear competition because competiton is what pushes people to innovate! That's why patents and copyrights have a limited period before they expire, to promote more innovation. Not for the great mind to simply invent one product and just sit on it. The amplifier companies will figure out a way to survive. If not, then it will fall to the digital profiling. If it was truly illegal to profile amps, than those companies would have sued Kemper already, if they haven't already done so.
Just pointing out Soldano has "certified" software models. It is a soldano amp. I'm sure it only helps sales and profit.
And this is why the amp builders/companies won't really be negatively affected by the modeling dealios.
And the people utilize the modeling probably wouldn't have bough the real thing(s) anyways, so...
I didn't watch the video, but I think that most posts in the thread are pointing the matter of ethics on the owner rather than the technology. The main gripe is buying an amp knowing that you're going to return it. That's going to screw return policies for everyone else.
Why should you get a return policy?
Sonos (www.sonos.com) states in their dealer agreement that Sonos direct dealers have NO right of return. Period. They don't even have a RMA department because Sonos does not take returns.
Why should a retailer be different?
Intent, agreed a moral question to b e sure but how, to the seller / manufacturer ANY DIFFERENT than a 30day return policy, try before you buy policy?
