Which is my basic problem with composites, if they don't feel right in the hand, you're stuck with them, it can't be changed. The only reason I never purchased a Steinberger or a Modulus was I didn't like the neck profiles and they couldn't be modded to my preference.
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The Evolution of Bass Guitar Technology and Beyond...
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Which is my basic problem with composites, if they don't feel right in the hand, you're stuck with them, it can't be changed. The only reason I never purchased a Steinberger or a Modulus was I didn't like the neck profiles and they couldn't be modded to my preference.
There is a difference between sport and art. F1 remains at the bleeding edge of technology, but there are still those who embrace the art of racing in hopelessly old technology. I would not be surprised if composites eventually rule the entry-level market. But art isn't driven by technology like sport is. You have people using new mediums and cutting edge tools, but there still is magic in the old school. Wood isn't going anywhere in the near future. Just like acoustic pianos have not been totally replaced by digital instruments. Music is more than just math.
And for the record, I loved my Zon Lightwave fretless - both for the sound of the Lightwave system and the feel/stability of the graphite neck. But at some point I wanted to get back to wood despite the "lower performance." Could be due to my psychosis, but it is what it is.
Personally, I'm all for what's being done with hollow and semi-hollow instruments recently.
So, you REALLY carve all your basses' necks to your preferences?... come on....
If they made a STOCK Fender spec neck out of composite,99.9% of the buyers would be fine with that, especially if they were pretty impervious to twisting, warping of fret-sprout.
Again, the history of making carbon fiber composite basses DID show that it's difficult to work with THAT process in a boutique hand-laid up manner. And nasty toxic, too.
But that doesn't stop Shakespeare or Ping or Wilson from mass producing carbon fiber products, heck, they're in every sporting goods store in the US. If they can do it, so could the musical instrument manufacturers... and they will, when the cost vs. ROI make sense.
If they made a STOCK Fender spec neck out of composite,99.9% of the buyers would be fine with that, especially if they were pretty impervious to twisting, warping of fret-sprout.
Again, the history of making carbon fiber composite basses DID show that it's difficult to work with THAT process in a boutique hand-laid up manner. And nasty toxic, too.
But that doesn't stop Shakespeare or Ping or Wilson from mass producing carbon fiber products, heck, they're in every sporting goods store in the US. If they can do it, so could the musical instrument manufacturers... and they will, when the cost vs. ROI make sense.
Yes I do, have done since the early '70s. Especially Warmoth, Allparts, and most Fender necks. In fact, the only Fender neck I actually like is on the MIJ Mustang. My current no-reprofile favorite is the Hofner Icon/Ignition.
Nostatic,
Thanks for the thumbs up on the Lightwave!
Mod Bryan deep6ed it from the get go. Said it had problems tranmitting some techniques.
If you look at my last post regarding Entwistle and his Buzzard Bass, you will see why this thread exists.
By the way folks, Mongo is on ignore on my end but I am reporting him as an e-stalker. (grin)
Thanks for the thumbs up on the Lightwave!
Mod Bryan deep6ed it from the get go. Said it had problems tranmitting some techniques.
If you look at my last post regarding Entwistle and his Buzzard Bass, you will see why this thread exists.
By the way folks, Mongo is on ignore on my end but I am reporting him as an e-stalker. (grin)
- Feb 16, 2008
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being the 'old school', vintage type of guy that i am, and building guitars and basses since 1973, you might think that i would say that basses should be made from wood. yes, that's what i still use, since it's easier to shape and (for me) to control, but i have no problem with a composite instrument at all. for me the important thing is stiffness, lightweight and resonance, so if properly done, a CF/glass composite could and would make the ultimate bass. IMO, modulus has come the closest to achieving just that (and, IMO, Steinberger came very close). to me, the Moses offerings are just too dense and heavy.
when you think of it, Danelectro's masonite/fir bodies were pretty innovative, and Maccaferi made 100% plastic (styron) archtops. i've owned several NOS ones from 1953, and they were actually pretty decent.
of course, to make a CF/glass one, IMO, you'd have to make it have all the benefits, i.e. strength, stability, resonance, comfort, and the tone of wood and none (or alot less) of it's disadvantages. i believe that it will eventually happen, but for now i'll just stick to using 'wire & wood'.
when you think of it, Danelectro's masonite/fir bodies were pretty innovative, and Maccaferi made 100% plastic (styron) archtops. i've owned several NOS ones from 1953, and they were actually pretty decent.
of course, to make a CF/glass one, IMO, you'd have to make it have all the benefits, i.e. strength, stability, resonance, comfort, and the tone of wood and none (or alot less) of it's disadvantages. i believe that it will eventually happen, but for now i'll just stick to using 'wire & wood'.
Commodity stuff will always be ruled by faster/better/cheaper.
I think the question is whether composites will rule the middle ground or the high end? I think the high end will stay wood for a long time - the history of musical instruments lies in wood. But what about the $750-1500 market? Be interesting to see how that plays out.
Not really, just particular about the feel I want from an instrument. If the factories can't do it for me, I'll do it myself. I look at factory instruments as assembled bass kits and adjust accordingly.
I agree, John... as you know, I'm a 54 year old guy who just can't get enough Walnut in his basses!
Buuuuttt... I think that it's been correctly postulated that the commodity market (low end basses) will eventually go composite exactly BECAUSE it'll be faster, cheaper and easier to produce consistently. History has SHOWN this in other markets /applications.
But wood basses will probably always be at the top of desireability for most musicians. Composites may show advantages, but it'll be hard to pry the wood out of some of our hands!
Buuuuttt... I think that it's been correctly postulated that the commodity market (low end basses) will eventually go composite exactly BECAUSE it'll be faster, cheaper and easier to produce consistently. History has SHOWN this in other markets /applications.
But wood basses will probably always be at the top of desireability for most musicians. Composites may show advantages, but it'll be hard to pry the wood out of some of our hands!
With you on that Nostatic.
Presently the work of BL is not super Highend, but still in the Highend.
It will have to first penetrate into the mid to offset cost of Tech aquistion and tuning of the mass manufacturing process.
Still, the market has to WANT it, for it to become an influential/prolifically accepted innovation.
Meanwhile, the BassXX preamp has a very 180 degree approach to active Preamping. yet, since I was looking to push the envelope of thought and accepted norms, I have focued on LightWave.
Presently the work of BL is not super Highend, but still in the Highend.
It will have to first penetrate into the mid to offset cost of Tech aquistion and tuning of the mass manufacturing process.
Still, the market has to WANT it, for it to become an influential/prolifically accepted innovation.
Meanwhile, the BassXX preamp has a very 180 degree approach to active Preamping. yet, since I was looking to push the envelope of thought and accepted norms, I have focued on LightWave.
It'd be interesting if I could send one of my reprofiled necks to Modulus to make a mold to match it...at no extra charge. 
IME, another thing about composite necks is they lack the "personality" of wood. The two PV G Basses I've owned had composite necks (by Modulus) that work well but are devoid of personality.
However, the personality of wood is also what makes it more variable regarding live and dead necks and hot/dead spots, etc. Right now I'd rather have a good wood neck.
IME, another thing about composite necks is they lack the "personality" of wood. The two PV G Basses I've owned had composite necks (by Modulus) that work well but are devoid of personality.
However, the personality of wood is also what makes it more variable regarding live and dead necks and hot/dead spots, etc. Right now I'd rather have a good wood neck.
Bryan R. Tyler
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Tracked it down- a TBer who owned a Lightwave had issues with palm muting not sounding anywhere near as good as with magnetic basses, with the assumption being that your palm limiting the vibrations didn't give the sensors enough of a full sound that it gets when using magnetics.
And FWIW, nostatic said he dug his Lightwave- that doesn't mean he thinks that it was an industry revolution. I never deep-sixed the Lightwave as a viable idea- just not an evolution of the instrument.
But just because something isn't going to be considered an innovation in the industry does not mean it won't be the perfect thing for you. Lightwave isn't going to be a major thing, and it's not due to money or marketing- Lightwave even had a bunch of affordable basses on the market the didn't sell well. It's just that not enough people want it for it to have widespread popularity or different enough to be considered an evolution. But that doesn't mean it won't be awesome for someone who wants it. The headless design that Steinberger is obviously a much bigger revolution in bass history as it had widespread and long-lasting influence- many modern companies still use it regularly including Klein, Zon, Kubicki, Status- heck, even Fender made a headless bass prototype. But a headless might not work for you while a Lightwave might be perfect.
Evolution doesn't mean "better." It just means different enough popular enough to stay around.
M.R. Ogle,
Wow...never enough Walnut!?
I appreciate Walnut in my Stringers but that is about it for me.
A past Luthier for G&L who worked with Leo (Fernando Villareal - made a Strat for Phil Keggey with LP Scale was in guitarplayer magazine in 1986) put me up for a few months when I worked with the Christianish Rock Band Sacred Fire. He had a 11-12lb Brazillian Rosewood laminate Bass he made which was about 1.5x thickness of a standard bass.
I think it was fretless, and in a Music Man StingRay configuration.
Wow..that was deep. Not for me though.
Wow...never enough Walnut!?
I appreciate Walnut in my Stringers but that is about it for me.
A past Luthier for G&L who worked with Leo (Fernando Villareal - made a Strat for Phil Keggey with LP Scale was in guitarplayer magazine in 1986) put me up for a few months when I worked with the Christianish Rock Band Sacred Fire. He had a 11-12lb Brazillian Rosewood laminate Bass he made which was about 1.5x thickness of a standard bass.
I think it was fretless, and in a Music Man StingRay configuration.
Wow..that was deep. Not for me though.
I found lightwave to be excellent when combined with the zon neck/fretboard in a fretless. I haven't liked any other application, especially fretted but ymmv. I think it is a niche technology and will be eclipsed by cheap a/d tech combined with modeling. But I think that will happen on the low end, not the high. You're seeing that dynamic with amps right now. Modeling has become commoditized while tubes still occupy the hearts and pocketbooks of many players.
I still believe that art isn't as swayed by tech as most other markets. With all the digital tools, you can still buy oil paints. Photography is an exception (sorry kodachrome) but that is ruled more by geekery than artists these days.
I still believe that art isn't as swayed by tech as most other markets. With all the digital tools, you can still buy oil paints. Photography is an exception (sorry kodachrome) but that is ruled more by geekery than artists these days.
a buddy of mine used to use a lightwave bass and let me play it once, and i hated it. too clean, too "electronic" sounding.
I had the pretty much same reaction to the Line6 bass I picked up on closeout - Piezo pickups with modeling circuits. I thought the concept was pretty good, having all these tones available but they wound up sounding too electronic and contrived for my taste.
