Tempted to buy a new bass, and it's shortscale. Haven't bought strings in years! What are the current options for 30" scale strings in fifths-friendly gauges?
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The Fifths Tuning Club
- Thread starter ~M.o.M~
- Start date
Picked up two new 34" scale basses around the holidays and I already have them strung in fifths. The Urge II (with Kalium rounds) and RB IV (with GHS flats) are true joys to play - and sound/feel fantastic. Ultimately I may end up thinning basses eventually as the Breedlove acoustic fretless (not shown above and my HotRod Hoppus (fretless) aren't getting any love lately.
Pardon the Squier Bass VI (just restrung it with Kalium .098 - .022 set and set intonation) as I just got it and it's still in fourths - likely to stay that way too. I like the scale for a bass, unsure whether I like the tight spacing yet - plays and sounds great though. But, as a guitar'd player, I suck. My hands and brain are trying, but chords..UGGG! I need to read up on guitars strung in fifths to see how chord fingering works. Could be an option. I know @khutch strings his 6's in fifths, but if memory serves, he's doing more bass than guitar parts. I'd like to know/play both.
John
I get my strings from either Kalium or Stringjoy, and I tried to shoot for roughly 40 lbs of tension per string. For CGDA at 34" scale length, that translates to 130, 90, 60, and 40 for the gauges. Not sure if any of that applies to short scale though.
@khutch,
Mind listing your LaBella custom string gauges for your fifths tuned Bass VI? I looked, but I don't believe that you detailed a full list - just that it was a .120 for the low C. Specifically, I'm wondering about that high B string - but I'm new to the 30" game with my VI so...
If my fourths tuned Bass VI doesn't work out for me, I'll be going to full fifths on everything and strings from Kalium.
Oh, and also if memory serves, I think you once-upon-a-time posted a string length/tension calculator link. If you still have the link, that would be appreciated too. (The old CircleK/Kalium calculator is long gone.) Oops. Found it. stringtensioncalculator.com
From Kalium I'm thinking .118/.079/.051/.037/.021(p)/.014(p) to keep the tension fairly even between 27 lbs at the low end and 24 lbs at the high end.
Now I need to figure out which scale I need for the VI. Perhaps an email to Kalium is in order. I do know that the.098 Bass VI low E string was a bear to get into the VI tuner.
Thx,
John
Mind listing your LaBella custom string gauges for your fifths tuned Bass VI? I looked, but I don't believe that you detailed a full list - just that it was a .120 for the low C. Specifically, I'm wondering about that high B string - but I'm new to the 30" game with my VI so...
If my fourths tuned Bass VI doesn't work out for me, I'll be going to full fifths on everything and strings from Kalium.
Oh, and also if memory serves, I think you once-upon-a-time posted a string length/tension calculator link. If you still have the link, that would be appreciated too. (The old CircleK/Kalium calculator is long gone.) Oops. Found it. stringtensioncalculator.com
From Kalium I'm thinking .118/.079/.051/.037/.021(p)/.014(p) to keep the tension fairly even between 27 lbs at the low end and 24 lbs at the high end.
Now I need to figure out which scale I need for the VI. Perhaps an email to Kalium is in order. I do know that the.098 Bass VI low E string was a bear to get into the VI tuner.
Thx,
John
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Actually, did the string tension online calculator again.
The Kalium Bass VI set (EADGBE set) is as follows (from Kalium and per the online calculator):
Size / Pounds Tension
.098 / 26.969
.073 / 28.789
.055 / 29.347
.041 / 29.971
.031 / 28.25
.022p / 27.247
Tension feels good for each string. The low E/.098 feels nice - picks, fingers and slaps great at ~27 lbs, but I'd like a bit more tension if possible hence going up the 28.7 lbs in the below string gauges. The 22p feels good and is nice and bendy but doesn't feel like it'll snap easily. I've had a 22p high F on my (former) 7 string bass and I never had an issue with it, so I think it at E it'll be great.
Bass VI gauges & tension I'm thinking now are as follows:
Size / Pounds Tension
.124 / 28.706
.082 / 28.936
.055 / 29.347
.035 / 28.074
.022p / 27.247 or 0.023p / 29.787
.014p / 24.774 or 0.015p / 28.435
Thinking is as follows. Current Kalium low E string (.098) has 26.969 lbs of tension (per the calculator). It feels good and I think the low C1 note will be good with higher tension.
WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT is the high B3 string. I know I'll need the most diameter I can get to ensure I don't break the string. A .0135p has 23 pounds of tension which may be too light and may rattle against the frets. A .015p has 28.435 pounds of tension which should keep it from fret rattles, but may be harsh sounding and hard on the fingers (I need to quit being a baby too).
On a 34" scale bass, the .022p tuned to F had 39.284 pounds of tension and that was harsh to play but I never broke one - the Conklin Snakeskin .022w had ~37 lbs of tension which was better but I broke many, so 2 pounds of tension makes a big difference (I know round v. plain - it may be more than tension) - and I know I'm mixing scales and tunings a bit here so YMMV.
Anyway, the Bass VI is great with about 27-30 (ish) pounds of tension tuned E to e, so that's what I'm going for with C to b. But I do think that I'll order a 0.015p high B3 string to see if the 28.435 pounds is a bit much and whether I break strings when getting bendy. If I don't, I may try a 0.023p for the E3 string too.
Also I've sent an email to Kalium to determine which scale I order for the Bass VI but haven't heard anything yet. Hopefully I can figure out what scale to order to for the VI to get the windings on the tuner end correctly and have the .124 string actually fit in the tuner.
If I can't get the E to e tuning and chords on the Bass VI, I'll be ordering the strings above to go to C to b. Not sure which one I'd prefer but going C to b keeps me all in fifths... Hmmm!
John
The Kalium Bass VI set (EADGBE set) is as follows (from Kalium and per the online calculator):
Size / Pounds Tension
.098 / 26.969
.073 / 28.789
.055 / 29.347
.041 / 29.971
.031 / 28.25
.022p / 27.247
Tension feels good for each string. The low E/.098 feels nice - picks, fingers and slaps great at ~27 lbs, but I'd like a bit more tension if possible hence going up the 28.7 lbs in the below string gauges. The 22p feels good and is nice and bendy but doesn't feel like it'll snap easily. I've had a 22p high F on my (former) 7 string bass and I never had an issue with it, so I think it at E it'll be great.
Bass VI gauges & tension I'm thinking now are as follows:
Size / Pounds Tension
.124 / 28.706
.082 / 28.936
.055 / 29.347
.035 / 28.074
.022p / 27.247 or 0.023p / 29.787
.014p / 24.774 or 0.015p / 28.435
Thinking is as follows. Current Kalium low E string (.098) has 26.969 lbs of tension (per the calculator). It feels good and I think the low C1 note will be good with higher tension.
WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT is the high B3 string. I know I'll need the most diameter I can get to ensure I don't break the string. A .0135p has 23 pounds of tension which may be too light and may rattle against the frets. A .015p has 28.435 pounds of tension which should keep it from fret rattles, but may be harsh sounding and hard on the fingers (I need to quit being a baby too).
On a 34" scale bass, the .022p tuned to F had 39.284 pounds of tension and that was harsh to play but I never broke one - the Conklin Snakeskin .022w had ~37 lbs of tension which was better but I broke many, so 2 pounds of tension makes a big difference (I know round v. plain - it may be more than tension) - and I know I'm mixing scales and tunings a bit here so YMMV.
Anyway, the Bass VI is great with about 27-30 (ish) pounds of tension tuned E to e, so that's what I'm going for with C to b. But I do think that I'll order a 0.015p high B3 string to see if the 28.435 pounds is a bit much and whether I break strings when getting bendy. If I don't, I may try a 0.023p for the E3 string too.
Also I've sent an email to Kalium to determine which scale I order for the Bass VI but haven't heard anything yet. Hopefully I can figure out what scale to order to for the VI to get the windings on the tuner end correctly and have the .124 string actually fit in the tuner.
If I can't get the E to e tuning and chords on the Bass VI, I'll be ordering the strings above to go to C to b. Not sure which one I'd prefer but going C to b keeps me all in fifths... Hmmm!
John
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For what it's worth, my 34" 6 string is tuned C to B and I'm using a plain 0.015" from Kalium, at about 36.5 lbs of tension, according to this calculator. It has held up quite well since the string change back in December. I actually love the acoustic sound of the B string, crisp and bright, almost like an acoustic guitar.
Fifths tuning on a bass VI-type instrument sounds like a great idea. The shorter scale would make the shifting less troublesome. I would maybe try F1 to E4, cello tuning with two extra strings on both ends. Heeding @jharms80439 's recommendation of 27-30 lbs, I came up with the following numbers using the same calculator I linked earlier.
Pitch - Gauge (in.) - Tension (lbs.)
F1 - 0.090 - 27.414
C2 - 0.061 - 28.708
G2 - 0.041 - 29.961
D3 - 0.026w - 29.063
A3 - 0.017p - 28.994
E4 - 0.011p - 27.256
While Kalium does sell all of the listed gauges, I'm not sure how well this would work in reality. As for the actual instrument, my dream choice would have been an Ibanez SRC6 (if only they didn't discontinue it!) I've had a blast with my SR306 (both in fourths and fifths), so I would have gone for the closest thing to it in bass VI form.
Fifths tuning on a bass VI-type instrument sounds like a great idea. The shorter scale would make the shifting less troublesome. I would maybe try F1 to E4, cello tuning with two extra strings on both ends. Heeding @jharms80439 's recommendation of 27-30 lbs, I came up with the following numbers using the same calculator I linked earlier.
Pitch - Gauge (in.) - Tension (lbs.)
F1 - 0.090 - 27.414
C2 - 0.061 - 28.708
G2 - 0.041 - 29.961
D3 - 0.026w - 29.063
A3 - 0.017p - 28.994
E4 - 0.011p - 27.256
While Kalium does sell all of the listed gauges, I'm not sure how well this would work in reality. As for the actual instrument, my dream choice would have been an Ibanez SRC6 (if only they didn't discontinue it!) I've had a blast with my SR306 (both in fourths and fifths), so I would have gone for the closest thing to it in bass VI form.
@Cal03, Cello +2 strings would make an awesome baritone (ish) v. bass instrument.
FWIW, I had a great conversation with Skip at Kalium today regarding strings (great guy BTW - helpful as heck).
For the Bass VI instruments and strings from Kalium, order a LONG GUITAR string for the low C1 string - guitar strings for the rest. The long guitar string windings will clear the nut and the step down in windings after the nut will fit the tuner.
John
FWIW, I had a great conversation with Skip at Kalium today regarding strings (great guy BTW - helpful as heck).
For the Bass VI instruments and strings from Kalium, order a LONG GUITAR string for the low C1 string - guitar strings for the rest. The long guitar string windings will clear the nut and the step down in windings after the nut will fit the tuner.
John
I've moved my SRMS800 from fifths tuning to tritone tuning, C F# C F#. Nearly the range of a five string and I find myself more inspired by it. I might be back at some point though...I do tend to get easily distracted. Keep the lights on for me.
I'm liking it. I've settled on D G# D G# though, in part because it's a lot easier to find strings that will work well for that (and on my Dingwall I can have a low G# which is a lot of fun).
Ok, so I've messed with tritone tuning (Db G Db G) for about an hour now, and it is wacky! But in a fun way.
I found an older thread on tritone tuning. I'll share my thoughts over there to keep this thread focused on fifths.
Tritones, who would've thought!
I found an older thread on tritone tuning. I'll share my thoughts over there to keep this thread focused on fifths.
Tritones, who would've thought!
I recently acquired a Squier Tele (how that came to be is a long story for another day), and for once I'm trying to learn guitar properly. That hasn't stopped me from thinking about messing with the tunings, of course. 
But after some quick calculations, it seems like the 25.5" scale length is working against me if I wanted to tune it in fifths. Has anybody managed to pull off all fifths tuning it on a regular 6-string guitar? I was thinking of Bb1 to A4, C2 to B4 seemed impossible because of the high B string.
But after some quick calculations, it seems like the 25.5" scale length is working against me if I wanted to tune it in fifths. Has anybody managed to pull off all fifths tuning it on a regular 6-string guitar? I was thinking of Bb1 to A4, C2 to B4 seemed impossible because of the high B string.
Hello fellow fifths enthusiasts, I just wanted to share another foray of exploration with all fifths tuning, albeit on another string instrument that's not a BG nor a DB.
Back in August of last year, I theorized that ukuleles would make the perfect candidates for changing the tuning to fifths. The shorter scale length would help a lot with the extra shifting, and having only 4 strings makes it easier to implement, unlike on a guitar where some scale lengths are almost impossible (I myself gave up on trying it my tele...). The chord shapes are best suited for 4 strings anyway, and most other instruments already tuned in fifths only have 4 strings (or 4 courses of strings), so I can easily just reference, say, violin/fiddle or mandolin resources. I even conjectured if it was possible to reverse-engineer an SATB quartet to match the mandolin family...
After scouring the interwebs, it turns out that a fair number of uke enthusiasts do in fact tune in fifths, and Aquila has even made string sets for both Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed tunings. Rob MacKillop has recently published a Mel Bay method book for playing fifths-tuned uke (might be of interest to the club here). He has also uploaded several videos on his YouTube channel playing a tenor uke tuned in fifths, wonderful playing throughout!
So I decided to try it out for myself and bought a cheap baritone uke to tune GDAE (octave mandolin tuning). And my hunch was pretty much spot on. It is effectively a nylon string tenor guitar, and the chord shapes sound different enough from a regular guitar to set it apart. I can move all over the fretboard with minimal shifting or stretching. And of course, the spread triads sound sweet and lovely on an acoustic instrument. I'm eager to try this on other uke sizes to match the mandolin family like I theorized.
I know this wasn't quite bass-related, but I wanted to share this experience for any of those interested. I may post an update when I get around to trying this idea again.
Back in August of last year, I theorized that ukuleles would make the perfect candidates for changing the tuning to fifths. The shorter scale length would help a lot with the extra shifting, and having only 4 strings makes it easier to implement, unlike on a guitar where some scale lengths are almost impossible (I myself gave up on trying it my tele...). The chord shapes are best suited for 4 strings anyway, and most other instruments already tuned in fifths only have 4 strings (or 4 courses of strings), so I can easily just reference, say, violin/fiddle or mandolin resources. I even conjectured if it was possible to reverse-engineer an SATB quartet to match the mandolin family...
After scouring the interwebs, it turns out that a fair number of uke enthusiasts do in fact tune in fifths, and Aquila has even made string sets for both Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed tunings. Rob MacKillop has recently published a Mel Bay method book for playing fifths-tuned uke (might be of interest to the club here). He has also uploaded several videos on his YouTube channel playing a tenor uke tuned in fifths, wonderful playing throughout!
So I decided to try it out for myself and bought a cheap baritone uke to tune GDAE (octave mandolin tuning). And my hunch was pretty much spot on. It is effectively a nylon string tenor guitar, and the chord shapes sound different enough from a regular guitar to set it apart. I can move all over the fretboard with minimal shifting or stretching. And of course, the spread triads sound sweet and lovely on an acoustic instrument. I'm eager to try this on other uke sizes to match the mandolin family like I theorized.
I know this wasn't quite bass-related, but I wanted to share this experience for any of those interested. I may post an update when I get around to trying this idea again.
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Interesting. My basses are B G D A (or A D G B, lol), but my son plays the uke (not me). With the alternate tuning, do you re-order the sequence of string gauges also?
I've got an eight string uke that I tuned up CGDA like a mandola. It works good. Aquila makes uke strings for that tuning.
I'm using nylon guitar strings for the G and D strings as recommended by Invalid Link Removed from a mandolin forum. I kept the two highest strings since they're already tuned to B and E, so I only needed to tune the B down to an A. I may end up swapping them out with the recommended strings down the road.
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I’ll get around to a ukuzouki eventually. Actually wish I’d seen that before starting on a project to convert a Gretch Gin Rickey into a 4-string tuned like a cello. Next step there are fresh nut and bridge saddle to convert. Neck will be a bit wide but I don’t think that will be a problem.
