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The Fretless Club (Part 2!)

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#101
Thanx for your replies folks. I finally had the chance to try the Squier fretless, and I must say it feels very solid, and despite some minor flaws I noticed (and compared to a Reggie Hamilton Jazz Bass that tried, too) it´s a very nice bass for the price.

About the strings, the one I tried had rounds on it and I think they sounded nice with the ebonol board, and that takes me to something I forgot to ask in my previous post and that Stempelloos pointed out: If wear doesn´t affect sound or playability then, it´s just a matter of looks?

Cheers.
 
#102
CaracasBass said:
Thanx for your replies folks. I finally had the chance to try the Squier fretless, and I must say it feels very solid, and despite some minor flaws I noticed (and compared to a Reggie Hamilton Jazz Bass that tried, too) it´s a very nice bass for the price.

About the strings, the one I tried had rounds on it and I think they sounded nice with the ebonol board, and that takes me to something I forgot to ask in my previous post and that Stempelloos pointed out: If wear doesn´t affect sound or playability then, it´s just a matter of looks?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing so? I have the squier fretless so can't help much there, and the next fretless I want is going to be using ebonol too,...

I'd think it MAY affect playability if it caused excessive damage? that's just my thoughs though (ie why so many people are worried about it...)

I personally love the sound of elixir rounds on ebonol... no finger noise and everything is nice and smooth playability wise :bassist:
 
#103
Stempelloos said:
Propagators of the pure wood refer to double basses to prove their point by saying "those strings are on pure Ebony and don't need anything else". And a bit of wear doesn't change the sound of your fretboard, just as roadworn bodies keep their sound with lumps & bumps on the body.
Click to expand...

Most of what Stempelloos says I'll go along with but this last bit I would take issue with regarding wooden fingerboards. Double bass strings are flatwound by nature so won't damage the board to any degree, depending on how heavily you play. However, roundwounds on a rosewood or maple fingerboard will damage it and will affect the playing as you end up with a board that is not true across its plain. You'll end up with buzzing here and there and note transition might be affected too.

The ebonol board on the VM Jazz is man made so will probably be harder and handle rounds more easily. I have heard it said that ebony boards can take rounds without much damage as it is a fairly dense wood.
 
#104
BassBus said:
Most of what Stempelloos says I'll go along with but this last bit I would take issue with regarding wooden fingerboards. Double bass strings are flatwound by nature so won't damage the board to any degree, depending on how heavily you play. However, roundwounds on a rosewood or maple fingerboard will damage it and will affect the playing as you end up with a board that is not true across its plain. You'll end up with buzzing here and there and note transition might be affected too.

The ebonol board on the VM Jazz is man made so will probably be harder and handle rounds more easily. I have heard it said that ebony boards can take rounds without much damage as it is a fairly dense wood.
Click to expand...

Roundwounds will develop a wear across the fretboard, the amount of buzz (if any buzz at all) depends on the amount of tone (full/mid or low) and your fingersetting. The wear will develop according to your finger setting, which will bring a personal 'feel' to the board. A wooden board is hardly ever fully true across it's plain, that's why people choose ebonol/carbon/graphite fretboards.
Any fretboard played will develop a wear and sound that is based on your playing, roundwounds give a deeper wear, flatwounds keep the surface smoother but will add wear too.
There's more difference in sound between a dry and an oiled fretboard
than between a roundwound worn in and a flatwound worn in fretboard.
 
#105
Stempelloos said:
Roundwounds will develop a wear across the fretboard, the amount of buzz (if any buzz at all) depends on the amount of tone (full/mid or low) and your fingersetting. The wear will develop according to your finger setting, which will bring a personal 'feel' to the board. A wooden board is hardly ever fully true across it's plain, that's why people choose ebonol/carbon/graphite fretboards.
Any fretboard played will develop a wear and sound that is based on your playing, roundwounds give a deeper wear, flatwounds keep the surface smoother but will add wear too.
There's more difference in sound between a dry and an oiled fretboard
than between a roundwound worn in and a flatwound worn in fretboard.
Click to expand...

just to build on the original question,... how deep would the 'wear' have to be to be signifcant? I have heard of some people say that an untreated rosewood fngerboard say would have to be discarded after a years worth of heavy playing,... to me that sounds kind of weird and very expensive way to go about it?

and im guessing here, but would a hard epoxied fingerboard equal about the same 'hardness' as ebonol? I was told it could be cheap to do a defretting to my current five string but then I thought about nut setup and getting epoxied and so on and thought buying a fretless 5 with ebonol already would outweigh the difference,... but I think need to explore a bit more now!!!
 
#106
theunknowndude said:
just to build on the original question,... how deep would the 'wear' have to be to be signifcant? I have heard of some people say that an untreated rosewood fngerboard say would have to be discarded after a years worth of heavy playing,... to me that sounds kind of weird and very expensive way to go about it?

and im guessing here, but would a hard epoxied fingerboard equal about the same 'hardness' as ebonol? I was told it could be cheap to do a defretting to my current five string but then I thought about nut setup and getting epoxied and so on and thought buying a fretless 5 with ebonol already would outweigh the difference,... but I think need to explore a bit more now!!!
Click to expand...

That depends on what you feel and hear, what is acceptable for one can be impossible for another. I'm told that wear adds character to your sound. I didn't hear about replacing worn off fretboards, I did hear about light sanding and polishing or removing a fretted board for a fretless board. The attached pictures show a rosewood fretboard that's been played on roundwounds for a good 10 years.
To me the wear doesn't make a whole lot of difference, soundwise.
It's not the hardness on itself that makes the clear sound, it's equal molecular structures that do, something that doesn't appear in natural grown matter.

P.s.: Another thing that is said about defretting is that a filled up board sounds less good and has less sustain than a one piece fretboard. This doesn't fully apply to Carbonol/graphite/carbon filled up with the same material, again the molecular structure.
 
#110
CaracasBass said:
Nice explanation Stempelloos. Now, unless somebody has been playing a bass with a ebonol board for about 10 years to show us some pictures, I guess we´ll have to wait few years to know what would happend to a ebonol board with round strings. ;)
Click to expand...

my ebonol board looks like it has very slight wear, but it seems to be less visible if I wipe down with a cloth,... doesn't bother me that much, bass is meant to be played! Just I heard horror stories and myths and had no idea what was true about ye old wood vs ebonol/coated etc :)
 
#111
CaracasBass said:
Now, unless somebody has been playing a bass with a ebonol board for about 10 years to show us some pictures, I guess we´ll have to wait few years to know what would happend to a ebonol board with round strings. ;)
Click to expand...

My Hohner PJ FL had a carbon fretboard. It was played intensively with roundwounds (Rotosound Swing bass & D'Addario XL) for a good 10 years when it got stolen, so I can't make any pictures of the wear.
What I can tell is that the wear didn't differ that much from rosewood.
(Playing in a loud band takes away your anxiousness for string noise because it can hardly be noticed in the roar of guitars:bassist:)
 
#113
090408ibanezs.jpg

fretless ibanez sr800
 
#114
I am thinking about having a fretless made for me and was considering epoxy coated ebony. Overkill? I hate flats! I dig the sound of pedulla, and want the durability of epoxy. Was also thinking about stabilized galleryhardwoods, but don't know if I have the dough for that. What are your thoughts on this?
 
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