The GHS Thread

[madbassplaya]

This post grew in size since I first saw it... I really want to stay out of it as it is directed to GHS directly... However, the following quote is the reason why manufacturers discontinue product.



You are not their only customer, however, if you already now have a supply that will last you almost ten years why keep them in their production run?

To stop production and re-tool a machine to produce a small production run of strings does not justify the cost. They need to make at least a gross (144) strings to really make it worth their time. Not many users purchase larger diameter B strings so this amount literally could be a few years supply.

They like to keep inventory constantly moving and fresh. Aging inventory just ads to cost, and the likeliness of the end user getting a "dead" string.

GHS is really good about their production and inventory. They also manufacturer and manufacturer more and more strings for private labels.

I literally order from GHS every day, and there are only two SKU's that I regularly sell that have ever gone on back order and that was once out of the nearly 3 years I am working with them.

Jason,

Thank you for your words. I understand that GHS has to do what they've done. It does suck for those of us who really enjoyed their larger B strings. It did not make much sense to me since brands like Circle K are coming out with larger strings that balance better with the other sets. However, I do understand that most users probably purchase a .125 or .130. I do believe for me a .135 is the B string to have now. I am hopeful that other companies continue to manufacture that gauge so I can get them somewhere. lol

GHS is a great company and they make a great product. I have enjoyed using their Boomers, Progressives, and Pressure Wounds. I understand they are doing what is best for their business and gross profit.

 

[SLaPiNFuNK]

I hope they do continue making them! I mean those products are why people come to me, but it is a more specialized product.

Probably for every 100 sets of boomers that are sold, a set of progressives is sold. And the figure of how many B strings is an even smaller figure.

Do I want the string in continued production? Yes
Do I understand why a company doesn't keep it in production? Yes

One of the other big string manufacturers stopped production on any string that they did not sell more of 100 of a year as singles. You would be surprised as to the strings they discontinued as many of us think they are staples. They did recently bring them back but they require a special lead time for ordering.

 

[Gorn]

I want D'addario to make stainless steel halfrounds again. I don't think the 1 set a year I would buy from them would justify putting them back into production. I've learned to accept dissapointment in my old age (nearly 30).

 

[iiipopes]

Jason,

You are the expert, you've been in business some time. But I've been custom ordering GHS strings since the late '70's. This is my opinion about what I perceive as a better product for the reasons stated.

The reason you are able to order every day from GHS is that their marketing has convinced the general public to buy what they want to sell, not necessarily what is a superior string.

The whole point of my post is that they need to do more marketing to sell what are some of their superior strings, especially in the face of the competition, so that decisions like the recent discontinued products do not become an ipso facto decision, but, if a product does need to be discontinued for lack of sales, it's for true lack of sales and cost/benefit analysis after proper marketing, not just, "Oh...these are still in the warehouse unsold. Guess we don't need to make them anymore," instead of, "Oh, these are in the warehouse unsold. We must try to market them to see if there is any actual demand before we just arbitrarily quit making them."

Another aspect is what Leo Fender did. He always insisted on a full line of products, even if some of them were not necessarily profitable, so that the entire public would have something to suit, and as playing needs and desires changed, then the same person would come back and buy more. He bought V. C. Squier, and for decades you could always see the Fender box of singles on the counter next to the sets for folks to try out. It is this philosophy of marketing that made Fender #1 in sales in the world, and is what everybody else needs to figure out how to do it in order to not just be an also ran. Unfortunately, the string company that is closest to doing that right now is D'Addario, and as a result, they are dominating the market, as set forth in this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f16/i-am-not-daddario-fan-i-buy-sell-trade-lots-basses-1001681/

Now, if GHS does do the marketing, and it turns out there is simply insufficent market for certain products that happen to be my some of my personal favorites in one or more aspects, then it won't be the first time I will have been in the minority, and won't be the last, and I will quietly say thank you for the times I did enjoy the product and move on.

 

[mmbongo]

Did I say proper marketing and reintroduction of the product? The recession is over. Time to start marketing.

Marketing. Proper marketing.

Interesting point. Look at Ernie Ball Cobalts. Ernie Ball could put on a clinic about marketing. Personally I find Cobalts nothing special and surely no better than Super Steels and definitely not better than Progressives...yet Ernie Ball can't make them fast enough. From what I've read in this thread it sounds like Ernie Ball has sold more Cobalts since they came out last year than GHS has sold Progressives ever. I have no idea if that's true, but it sounds like it is. All because of marketing.

I've never seen any GHS other than Boomers in ANY brick & mortar store anywhere. Cobalts are everywhere. Just sayin'.


And yeah, I can get all huffy about GHS no longer making .135/.136 Boomers or Progressives. But on the other hand DR does not make them in my favorites at all. No .135 Sunbeam, Dragon Skin, or Black Beauty. So, I don't use DR's on my 5 strings. Now I can no longer use GHS on my 5 strings or my 4 string Warwick.

So, I'll have to use strings that are offered in that gauge. Already have D'Addario and Circle K. Trying Dean Markley next. Maybe LaBella after that.

 

[Doodaddy]

I actually thought of GHS as cheap crap and refused to use them until the past couple of months. I saw them for sale at places like Best Buy or Walmart and completely associated them as "unusable".

Madbassplaya insisted I try Boomers and surprisingly, I loved them. I couldn't understand why I liked them when I've never personally known a single person to use GHS strings (guitar or bass) and saw them in places that Rogue is considered boutique.

Marketing is definitely key in this world.

 

[dedpool1052]

so far in the past couple months i've bought 5 sets of boomers without issue and today i buy a set of heavy gauge boomers and the E is completely dead. no zing, no volume. it's pretty dissappointing as i've grown to like boomers again.

 

[Jon Moody]

Okay, gents. We had our meetings last week and I brought up a number of concerns, specifically the ones about discontinuing certain gauges. I have gotten the Pres to agree to take another look at the proposed discontinued gauges, in an effort to keep the ones that really have a good following. I've spoken to Jason at BSO about this, and gotten some good info from him.

However, here’s where you all come in.

I need to know what gauges you want, but more importantly, what ones you BUY. It’s one thing for me to present this information as to what you all think are popular, but it’s quite another to back that up with sales figures.

I’m here. I’m listening. I’m doing what I can internally to help. Now I need you to help me

 

[iiipopes]

Thanks.

Here are my concerns:

1) Because of flatter radius necks (Fender went from 7 1/4 to 9 1/2 on all standard production models [not the "vintage" models] in the early '80's, and many new basses have 10 to 12, and many 5-string and 6-string basses have 12, 14 or even flatter crown radii), the need to make the A and D heavier, as the standard Boomers 45-65-85-105, because of the middle strings being farther away from the pole pieces of pickups such as standard Jazz pickups, is not always necessary anymore. I purchase sets like the Fender 9050CL flats 45-60-80-105 for my custom half-fanned P/J to get even tension and feel. I have purchased Progressives in custom order singles instead of sets in those same gauges, 45-60-80-105, for my Rickenbacker 4002 literally ever since your company has been making them. So to put them on a 5-er, I'd like to see the 131 and 136 Progressives reinstated to balance the 40 and 45 set.

I'd like to see the rest of your strings offer balanced versions sets as well, because as when the need arises, I purchase 46-60-80-106-138 Super Steels, when I'm playing heavier gigs or thump-pop-slap gigs.

The vast majority of players still play instruments derived from traditional top-load P and J basses, so having the E string the proper length is a must in all styles and gauges. Thanks for addressing that issue in another thread.

The gauges and feel of the tapewounds need to be reworked so there is even tension, even across the board lean-towards-mellow tone, and not have to recut the nut to try them. I have a couple of gigs each year where that would help out a small "semi-unplugged" or "restaurant-corner" gig where you want some bloom to the tone, but not necessarily sustain, and it's too small a set up space to bring my double bass.

One reason I quit purchasing Boomers twenty to thirty years ago was that the E string always died first, so I always had to purchase an extra E string. And this was when I was in college playing jazz band gigs reading charts, then later in grad school and even later in weekend bands writing our own songs, so I wasn't just sitting there thumping the E away for dear life. Any chance of reengineering the E strings in 100, 105 and 110 to get a multiple wrap or other solution to keep it alive longer?

Sorry, but when you announced the .138 Steels was discontinued, I did contact juststrings.com and I bought their entire stock; I think it was six individual strings. These should last me awhile, but one never knows. Now, here is an idea: it isn't much, and it may save some manufacturing or stocking of odd sized raw wire that doesn't have any other use for another gauge or line of strings, but if .138 is not in the picture, then maybe a .135 or .136, in order to keep a reasonably matched B string with the various sets.

As I think of more, I will post more. You have been most gracious in soliciting opinions and addressing them with management. I can't thank you enough. Long live GHS!

 

[WilemT97]

Hey guys, need a little bit of advice here. I'm starting an Alternative Indie band with a Stoner Rock bass vibe. I'm using a Fender Precision Bass, I've tried chrome flats and some sort of round wound string (found them in my room from a while ago and put em on) but neither seem to be working for me. The chromes don't have enough bite and the rounds have too much high end for my taste.
Any string recommendations for me? I was thinking about them Pressure wounds as they are kinda an "inbetween" string? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

 

[Jon Moody]

I'd definitely recommend the Pressurewounds. I've used them for a number of gigs, and not only do they fit your tonal goals, but they last a very long time. Here's a demo I did a while back, going over the details and also comparing a brand new set with an old, broken in one.

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Also, here's a video where Dave Pomeroy talks about the Pressurewounds as well.

Dave Pomeroy - Pressurewound Flats

 

[WilemT97]

I've seen some of your other videos before but not this one, great videos by the way!
Thanks for the link and your advice, think I'll purchase me a set

 

[madbassplaya]

Okay, gents. We had our meetings last week and I brought up a number of concerns, specifically the ones about discontinuing certain gauges. I have gotten the Pres to agree to take another look at the proposed discontinued gauges, in an effort to keep the ones that really have a good following. I've spoken to Jason at BSO about this, and gotten some good info from him.

However, here’s where you all come in.

I need to know what gauges you want, but more importantly, what ones you BUY. It’s one thing for me to present this information as to what you all think are popular, but it’s quite another to back that up with sales figures.

I’m here. I’m listening. I’m doing what I can internally to help. Now I need you to help me

I like this.

This is just an idea from me. D'addario extended the winding of their standard length sets just a little so that many players with 35 inch scales could buy those. I thought this was very cool and I believe GHS kind of does this with the long+ strings. I prefer 35 inch scale basses and need the longer strings. This is what I would like to see and would buy:

Progressives .136 B string .45-.106 E-G
Boomers .135(6) tapered B string
Pressurewounds that fit a 35 inch scale.

 

[Stevorebob]

Okay, gents. We had our meetings last week and I brought up a number of concerns, specifically the ones about discontinuing certain gauges. I have gotten the Pres to agree to take another look at the proposed discontinued gauges, in an effort to keep the ones that really have a good following. I've spoken to Jason at BSO about this, and gotten some good info from him.

However, here’s where you all come in.

I need to know what gauges you want, but more importantly, what ones you BUY. It’s one thing for me to present this information as to what you all think are popular, but it’s quite another to back that up with sales figures.

I’m here. I’m listening. I’m doing what I can internally to help. Now I need you to help me

I'd love 5-string Boomers with a tapered .130 B-string.

 

[Salamenster]

My little Precision Flatwounds demo:

 

[Jon Moody]

I'd like to see the rest of your strings offer balanced versions sets as well, because as when the need arises, I purchase 46-60-80-106-138 Super Steels, when I'm playing heavier gigs or thump-pop-slap gigs.

The vast majority of players still play instruments derived from traditional top-load P and J basses, so having the E string the proper length is a must in all styles and gauges. Thanks for addressing that issue in another thread.

I've been pouring over the info that we have (and talking to our plant manager in great length) about the whole balanced tension thing. Given the specs I have, our sets as a whole aren't bad; not perfect, but definitely better than I initially thought. I think our sets of Boomers just need a heavier E string (again, according to the technical data that I have in house). With that, I'll look into how our Boomers E string is made and see about it.

The Precision Flats E string isn't the only set with that issue; I'm hoping to remedy that with ALL of the sets that have it (Brite Flats and Progressives come to mind).

...and I believe GHS kind of does this with the long+ strings. I prefer 35 inch scale basses and need the longer strings. This is what I would like to see and would buy:

Progressives .136 B string .45-.106 E-G
Boomers .135(6) tapered B string
Pressurewounds that fit a 35 inch scale.

You are correct in that the Long Scale Plus is meant for other basses that are 35" scale.

You're not the first to ask for the Long Scale Plus set of Pressurewounds.

Taperwound B strings (across the board) would be nice. I'm a Warwick endorsee, so that one is something I'd really love to see.

 

[iiipopes]

Regarding the Boomers E string, please remember that a thicker gauge, meaning more mass, can cause inertia and cause the string to not vibrate in partials to the same degree as a lesser diameter string, which has the counterproductive effect of less overtones and more thump instead of less. That's why a multi-wrap, to keep the flexibility of the string, is what is necessary.

Tension on the core is not an issue.

A great case in point is the Thomastik-Infeld Spirocore double bass string that with its unique inner wrap keeps incredible brightness on the E string, to the point that Spiro E strings are often used as the foundation on many basses that are inherently dark with a variety of other double bass strings for the ADG. I myself have a Spiro 3885.5W E string on my double bass, which has a more middy character for jazz pizz, and blends perfectly in tension and tone, with a Bel Canto A & D and a D'Addario Prelude G, which is very dark for a G string, kind of like the thread where I recommended your Precision Flat G string for flats players who have a bass on which the G string tends to be too twangy.

Italian harpsichord makers figured this out this bass string dilemma in the 1600's and had thinner strings than you would imagine, or brass instead of steel strings where indicated, on their 4-octave harpsichords.

The only time that the thicker strings really worked was when the scale was lengthened, as on the 1500's opharion and bandora lute-style instruments, which are the predecessors to all modern fanned fret instruments. The scale had to be lengthened so that gut strings, which could only be made so large, would actually have enough tension and space for string excursion to actually work, so these instruments were developed then to deal with this issue, and by an English luthier, no less.

I remember that your short scale Boomers have a 107 E string. That would probably make a good "balanced" E string, if it is the wrap wire is a thou larger and not the core being 2 thou larger. That probably would not darken the E string too much.

 

[DavC]

i have used the Pressurewounds for several years ...
the last set i ordered thru bass strings online ...

you can custom order sets of singles to get the set you really want .. they are drop shipped from GHS ...

my 5er is tuned EADGC ...

the only problem i see with the Pressurewounds is there is little choice for the Low B guage ...

love the strings ... i would Never call them flats , as they are just wound tighter with the round wound type wrap ...
not a true Flat winding ... but an interesting ' inbetween ' kinda string that does everything pretty well ... !!!

i prefer my Ti flats , on my 4 string ... especially now that they're a couple years broken it .. !!

i have just tried a set of DR Sunbeams on my other 4 string ... interesting sound and feel ... very different from the Pressurewounds ... more mids , more aggressive ...

 

[Jon Moody]

love the strings ... i would Never call them flats , as they are just wound tighter with the round wound type wrap ...
not a true Flat winding ... but an interesting ' inbetween ' kinda string that does everything pretty well ... !!!

Yeah, I don't understand that either. They're technically a "roller wound" string, as the outer wrap is slightly flattened by a roller wheel as it's being wrapped around the core.

 

[natas]

do they make nylon tapewounds in light(.40) gauges?