The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[jacoby75]

As Scuba says, definitely worth the wait. I don't have a Particle Accelerator, but do have a Silver Deluxe, which I understand is quite similar.

I actually find the SD and Linden to work well together and are different enough to warrant keeping both on the board. Possibly because there may be some difference between the big and small Lindens, at least it sounds like that to my ear (I have my small box Linden on another board). I vaguely recall someone mentioning once that the EQ points were slightly different between the two.

View attachment 3960583

Ooooh. I'll bet this sounds gooood. I loved running the Linden into the SD. They complement each other very well. Throw an LA-1A in the front and my head would have exploded.

 

[chadhargis]

So my Reverb alert triggered when a Nordstrand Starlifter hit the market. I snapped it up and it is on its way. I love everything Carey does, and I've heard good things about this preamp. The power requirements are AC...which means most pedalboard power supplies can't run it.

I just want to hear it as I know it will be top quality as everything Carey does is. And if ya'll haven't heard, Carey is battling cancer, so if you're the praying kind, toss up a prayer for him as he's getting started with chemo.

Hey @scubaduba, if you haven't tried a Starlifter, after I give it a go I can let you borrow it for your input. I enjoy your reviews.

 

[benjobass]

So my Reverb alert triggered when a Nordstrand Starlifter hit the market. I snapped it up and it is on its way. I love everything Carey does, and I've heard good things about this preamp. The power requirements are AC...which means most pedalboard power supplies can't run it.

I just want to hear it as I know it will be top quality as everything Carey does is. And if ya'll haven't heard, Carey is battling cancer, so if you're the praying kind, toss up a prayer for him as he's getting started with chemo.

Hey @scubaduba, if you haven't tried a Starlifter, after I give it a go I can let you borrow it for your input. I enjoy your reviews.

It's a great pedal. I just bought one direct from Carey and it arrived a few days ago. It's a substantial pedal (small but seriously hefty - really, really well built) and sounds incredible. Even with the EQ just set flat it has a nice, musical "default" tonality. I've been impressed with it so far and look forward to exploring it more in the coming weeks. Curious to hear your thoughts on it once yours arrives...

 

[chadhargis]

It's a great pedal. I just bought one direct from Carey and it arrived a few days ago. It's a substantial pedal (small but seriously hefty - really, really well built) and sounds incredible. Even with the EQ just set flat it has a nice, musical "default" tonality. I've been impressed with it so far and look forward to exploring it more in the coming weeks. Curious to hear your thoughts on it once yours arrives...

I have no doubt it will be really good. They seldom pop up used, so people are hanging on to them. This is the first used one I've found on Reverb that wasn't priced astronomically high for a used pedal. Must have been a motivated seller. He accepted my first offer.

 

[fivestringgecko]

The Tech 21 Q\Strip can be set to sound pretty much the same as the Minnow. We shared some settings in the dedicated thread if you're interested.

You had me stumped there for a second... I went to that thread and did some searching and couldn't find anything, only to realize we were discussing in a PM thread! ha ha

I've certainly been exploring settings on the Qstrip to mimic the Minnow, and have watched Jayme Lewis' demo of it three times now, taking actual notes. ha! I even made myself a couple little cheat sheet flashcards with settings for my pedalboard case... I should probably go post them over in that main Qstrip thread! My ears tell me that the Q adds something to my sound as well, so hearing the same reports confirmed about the Minnow does elevate it on my G.A.S. list.

Need a tube or two in my signal chain first! (I know it's not really related to preamps/DIs, but I've actually been tempted to order a couple extra tubes and experiment with some lower gain glass in my '74 V4-B to get a little more heardroom on the volume knobs)

5sg.

 

[benjobass]

I have no doubt it will be really good. They seldom pop up used, so people are hanging on to them. This is the first used one I've found on Reverb that wasn't priced astronomically high for a used pedal. Must have been a motivated seller. He accepted my first offer.

Yeah, they definitely don't come up used often and when they do they disappear quickly. Nice score. I've been running a super simple signal chain this morning and loving it: LA-1A > Starlifter > SSDI > AI Ten2 Combo. Between the Starlifter and SSDI I have so much tonal variation and it's warm (and articulate) as all get out.

 

[chadhargis]

Yeah, they definitely don't come up used often and when they do they disappear quickly. Nice score. I've been running a super simple signal chain this morning and loving it: LA-1A > Starlifter > SSDI > AI Ten2 Combo. Between the Starlifter and SSDI I have so much tonal variation and it's warm (and articulate) as all get out.

I'll pop my LA-1A off my Oracle and put the Starlifter behind it when it gets here. Do some A/B comparisons.

 

[Littlewing6283]

Ha ha, I am pretty lucky. I have a Noble, a Khan, and a Suncoast F2p - each for a different scenario/setup. I also have a piece of rack gear, my Holy Grail, which is a Kern IP-777.

The stuff I'm selling is amazing and I do love them but, as @scubaduba says, you can't keep everything.

Its true, as much as I wish I could keep everything I just sold some stuff. I normally make Kemper profiles of all my setups so even though I let stuff go I can still recall some tones. Granted it can only be one setting from how I had it set when I profiled it but its better than nothing. If gigs ever become regular again I might just take my kemper and a handful of pedals. I guess it just depends. Conversely there has been some stuff ive sold that ive missed.

 

[scubaduba]

This arrived. Lightning Boy Audio TI Box.

 

[Lowendtech]

This arrived. Lightning Boy Audio TI Box.

View attachment 3961367

Nice. Gonna need a comparo with the RNDI or course. Looking forward to that.

 

[rhyharmel]

This arrived. Lightning Boy Audio TI Box.

View attachment 3961367

Seems like a comparison with another line of DIs with strong character is in order. Didn't care for them soloed much, but they sure do sit in a mix well. I have a feeling the TI Box will behave similarly.

 

[scubaduba]

I'll grab some clips of the TI Box compared to a cheap passive DI and also the RNDI (which requires phantom power).

Remember, the TI Box is totally passive and requires no power.

 

[jbhaugh]

I used a Colourbox v2 for a while. It is a great device. It offers nice coloration. Frankly, an excellent alternative to the tube preamp varieties.

I have been really pleased with it overall. HUGE gain range, from warm drive to broken-down gated fuzz and musical (or at least interesting) all the way up. The adjustable center frequencies on all 3 EQ controls have been extremely useful. I can get basically any tone out of it. Only complaint is the HPF minimum cutoff frequency is 60 Hz so it really takes all the heft out of a bass sound.

 

[Hypercaffium]

You had me stumped there for a second... I went to that thread and did some searching and couldn't find anything, only to realize we were discussing in a PM thread! ha ha

I've certainly been exploring settings on the Qstrip to mimic the Minnow, and have watched Jayme Lewis' demo of it three times now, taking actual notes. ha! I even made myself a couple little cheat sheet flashcards with settings for my pedalboard case... I should probably go post them over in that main Qstrip thread! My ears tell me that the Q adds something to my sound as well, so hearing the same reports confirmed about the Minnow does elevate it on my G.A.S. list.

Need a tube or two in my signal chain first! (I know it's not really related to preamps/DIs, but I've actually been tempted to order a couple extra tubes and experiment with some lower gain glass in my '74 V4-B to get a little more heardroom on the volume knobs)

5sg.

You did a pretty impressive work with the settings, thanks again. It would be a shame to not share your work, imho.
The Q\Strip definitely adds something to the sound, even when set flat. It's a surgical tool that can be used for everything and with everything, not only bass. When I need a solid clean tone I always use the Q\Strip because it's the best imho.

 

[ThisYouCanTrust]

Boutique vs Budget Board Showdown

In the Boutique corner...weighing in at god knows what...but it's heavy....the boutique board...

Signal path is as follows:
JHS Buffered Splitter
Southhampton All Things Equal Buffer
Effectrode LA-1A Compressor with matched Mullard tubes
Arkham Oracle Preamp with high gain Mullard tube
[sfx]MicroThumpinator
Rupert Neve DI
Allen & Heath Mixer - Channel 1
GarageBand

Powered by an Eventide Powermax (Ciocks DC-7)

And in the Budget corner...weighing in as light as a feather, fitting on a small Pedaltrain Nano board. No pedal costing more than $160 (all but one were $150 or less)...

Signal path is as follows:
JHS Buffered Splitter
Nightowl Edison Tube pre with whatever tube came in it
Becos Compiq Mini Compressor
[sfx]microThumpinator
Nux Preamp
Allen & Heath Mixer - Channel 2
GarageBand

Powered by the MXR Mini Iso Brick

The Tracks

I was feeling 70's nostalgic tonight, so I went with America's "Tin Man" which has a nice little bass line.

Both tracks were recorded simultaneously to different channels using my Bluesman Vintage passive PJ. So it's the same bass...same everything. There is no EQ or other post processing done to the tracks (other than the song track where I dramatically rolled out everything under 500hz to remove as much of the bass in the track as I could). And yes...I play a big fat clam at the end of the song and didn't feel like punching in a fix...so I left it.

Here's the clips:

Boutique Board

Budget Board

And since I know many of you like the bass only....here are the bass only tracks:

Boutique Board - Bass Only

Budget Board - Bass Only

So you can spend $1000+ on a preamp and a compressor or you can spend about $300. Can your audience tell the difference?

Pic for settings reference:
View attachment 3956720

Interesting how the bass shifts the sound of the mix.
With the budget board the drums never really "connect", it feels like the balance is wrong (snare sounds tinny, hi-hat is too loud, etc.).
With the boutique board the bass merges with the drums and carries the whole thing, the mix seems to be the exact same except this time it works.

The bass-only tracks ok sure you hear one is more alive and the other a bit flatter, but it's much less dramatic. But in the mix, wow ..

 

[JRMK]

I have been really pleased with it overall. HUGE gain range, from warm drive to broken-down gated fuzz and musical (or at least interesting) all the way up. The adjustable center frequencies on all 3 EQ controls have been extremely useful. I can get basically any tone out of it. Only complaint is the HPF minimum cutoff frequency is 60 Hz so it really takes all the heft out of a bass sound.

60hz doesn't sound like super high but maybe it's very steep cutoff (like 12db or so)?

Is it not too dark sounding? I.e. in a manner that people describe Mesa Subway sounding a little bit 'dark'

I'm looking to get this after Cali76 to squish the signal and turn into slightly driven burp/mid punch like i.e. Vulfpeck.

 

[jbhaugh]

60hz doesn't sound like super high but maybe it's very steep cutoff (like 12db or so)?

Is it not too dark sounding? I.e. in a manner that people describe Mesa Subway sounding a little bit 'dark'

I'm looking to get this after Cali76 to squish the signal and turn into slightly driven burp/mid punch like i.e. Vulfpeck.

I just re-checked the JHS website's Colour Box specs because upon reflection 60 Hz cutoff didn't sound right. The minimum cutoff frequency is 160 Hz, -3 dB/octave.

 

[scubaduba]

I just re-checked the JHS website's Colour Box specs because upon reflection 60 Hz cutoff didn't sound right. The minimum cutoff frequency is 160 Hz, -3 dB/octave.

The HPF is pretty much useless for bass guitar. I never used it.

 

[chadhargis]

Interesting how the bass shifts the sound of the mix.
With the budget board the drums never really "connect", it feels like the balance is wrong (snare sounds tinny, hi-hat is too loud, etc.).
With the boutique board the bass merges with the drums and carries the whole thing, the mix seems to be the exact same except this time it works.

The bass-only tracks ok sure you hear one is more alive and the other a bit flatter, but it's much less dramatic. But in the mix, wow ..

That's why I would rather hear demos in a mix. Bass (for most of us) is not a solo instrument. It's a foundational instrument that supports the rest of the band. Bass tone by itself is really meaningless. It took me a LONG time to realize that. I have owned lots of basses and lots of gear and for the longest time I focused on how good they sounded when I played them solo. Now I've developed an ear for what fits in a mix. @scubaduba seems to have an ear similar to mine. He has a great feel for what sounds good in both compressors and preamps.

When I bought my first compressor, a Markbass Compressore, I hated it. I didn't understand it. But once I learned how to use a compressor, it's a valuable tool for taming bass in a mix and creating a warm round even tone.

 

[jacoby75]

Interesting how the bass shifts the sound of the mix.
With the budget board the drums never really "connect", it feels like the balance is wrong (snare sounds tinny, hi-hat is too loud, etc.).
With the boutique board the bass merges with the drums and carries the whole thing, the mix seems to be the exact same except this time it works.

The bass-only tracks ok sure you hear one is more alive and the other a bit flatter, but it's much less dramatic. But in the mix, wow ..

That's been my experience recently as well since deciding to go back to my rack setup. I'm appreciating the difference between "tone" and "feel" more and more. (Subjective, difficult to quantify terms, I know). Over the past few years, in my endless quest for the "perfect" ampless pedalboard tone on my meager budget, I learned that I could often dial in a really good tone with some of the better pedal pres without an amp. At least it sounded good in my headphones. There could be some great character, EQ, maybe even some tubeyness. And yet when I'd play along to recordings through my headphone amp, it felt pretty boring and weak. Not a very scientific experiment, I know, but a subjectively disappointing one.

Then I switched back recently to my Demeter rack pre. There it is. Now, even using some of the same pedals with the Demeter has breathed a new life into them and given them serious heft and weight. But many of them have even become unnecessary, especially the pre pedals. When I play along with recordings now, my bass sounds and feels fuller, and feels more like it belongs there than when playing along with the pedal pres.

It's that subtle distinction I've been hearing in Scuba's demos and the demos of others when they compare some of the less expensive to the more expensive preamps. The tone and great character might be there with the less expensive models, yet there is this difficult-to-define heft and weight added to the notes with the higher-end stuff. Like, each note just punches more, feels fuller, hits you harder and hangs there, makes your head vibrate just a little more, etc. I don't really know how to describe it. It's not just about EQ or baked-in character. But there is definitely a difference. And that added heft and weight is what likely helps it sit better in a mix as opposed to getting washed out or lost. I'm not sure what it is. The quality of components? The transformer in these higher end options somehow boosting and pushing the tone? There is so very little inside the Demeter rack. I opened it up the other day to change the tubes. It's basically a small EQ section, the two tubes, and a large Jensen transformer. But whatever it is, it's magic.

I sort of regret my last few years of searching for the perfect "ampless pedalboard" sound. I've wound up with some great stuff in the end, but ultimately went back to what I started with years ago and have never been happier. I've spent a lot of time and money, but it was a fun journey, and I learned a lot. The never-ending compressor search has totally paid off, because the PDR sounds fantastic into the Demeter. And much of the effects flipping has led to some great tools for different scenarios. I am coming to understand the benefit of having multiple rigs for different scenarios, though I would be hard pressed to ever play without my Demeter again.