The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[fivestringgecko]

I'm thinking this is a miss.

I'm thinking the same for myself as well. I was just trying to contribute to the thread.

Carvin just released a new all-in-one bass preamp @ $240; definitely seems like a better value than the API
Eq + compressor + mute, FX loop, and XLR out
BX1 Bass Preamp

But how will it sound? I have never been too impressed by Carvin.

I've only had a couple interactions with Carvin Audio gear (which FYI was completely separate company from Carvin Instruments that later switched back to the Kiesel namesake). The instruments are quite great, but the only real experience I have with Carvin Audio is an IEM system which was.... a little disappointing. Mediocre at best.

Kind of surprising that the two companies could be so different.

5sg.

 

[Giff]

I'm thinking the same for myself as well. I was just trying to contribute to the thread.





I've only had a couple interactions with Carvin Audio gear (which FYI was completely separate company from Carvin Instruments that later switched back to the Kiesel namesake). The instruments are quite great, but the only real experience I have with Carvin Audio is an IEM system which was.... a little disappointing. Mediocre at best.

Kind of surprising that the two companies could be so different.

5sg.

Would definitely love to try a Kiesel! I put together a Carvin bolt-on bass kit back in the early aughts. It was a nice playing instrument!

 

[SteveC]

I'll wait for the Bergantino pedal.

 

[chadhargis]

Picked up another fun piece of gear. An Ampeg PF-50T. While technically not a preamp, it does have a preamp...and a very nice one at that. A couple of 12AX7 tubes and a very usable three band EQ with selectable mid frequency. As far as a DI goes, you get two choices...a preamp DI and a transformer out DI. The transformer out DI comes AFTER the power section, so you get the sound of those hot tubes (and yes...they get hot and glow like old fashioned Christmas tree lights).

I just got it today, so I need to do some more playing with it and let the new wear off a bit to tame the "new toy" bias. But I'll just say this...I paid less for the used PF-50T than I've seen used REDDI or Noble units going for. I've owned a Noble. I've owned a Oracle. I've owned a Shift Line Olympic. I've owned a LeBass. I've own a Tube Injection. I've owned a LOT of tube preamps. I currently own a nice digital board with good tube emulation. But it's been a long time since I played with a real tube head. Last time was an SVT head...all 98lbs of it. The PF-50T is only about 20lbs. And my initial impressions....

It's glorious.

It's not only an auditory thrill, but you can smell the dust burning off the tubes. You can feel the heat rising off of it. The amp reacts to your playing like it's alive. Very very cool piece of kit.

Ummmm....I can smell the dust burning off the tubes...must be warmed up. Time to play some more.

Sound clips will be coming soon.

 

[Deleted member 360599]

Picked up another fun piece of gear. An Ampeg PF-50T. While technically not a preamp, it does have a preamp...and a very nice one at that. A couple of 12AX7 tubes and a very usable three band EQ with selectable mid frequency. As far as a DI goes, you get two choices...a preamp DI and a transformer out DI. The transformer out DI comes AFTER the power section, so you get the sound of those hot tubes (and yes...they get hot and glow like old fashioned Christmas tree lights).

I just got it today, so I need to do some more playing with it and let the new wear off a bit to tame the "new toy" bias. But I'll just say this...I paid less for the used PF-50T than I've seen used REDDI or Noble units going for. I've owned a Noble. I've owned a Oracle. I've owned a Shift Line Olympic. I've owned a LeBass. I've own a Tube Injection. I've owned a LOT of tube preamps. I currently own a nice digital board with good tube emulation. But it's been a long time since I played with a real tube head. Last time was an SVT head...all 98lbs of it. The PF-50T is only about 20lbs. And my initial impressions....

It's glorious.

It's not only an auditory thrill, but you can smell the dust burning off the tubes. You can feel the heat rising off of it. The amp reacts to your playing like it's alive. Very very cool piece of kit.

Ummmm....I can smell the dust burning off the tubes...must be warmed up. Time to play some more.

Sound clips will be coming soon.

The PF-50T was one of my favorite heads.

 

[chadhargis]

The PF-50T was one of my favorite heads.

I was skeptical that the transformer DI out would really sound that much different...but it does. I think the most fun part of the amp is how the tone changes when you play softly or more aggressively. It is smooth and butter with a light touch but if you dig in and hit those tubes harder it will give you that sweet tube sound that we all know and love.

I'm just digging it.

It reminds me of my youth. I remember turning on the TV and having to wait a few seconds before the picture showed up. The tubes had to get warm. Same with the big console stereo my parents had. You'd turn it on, then go find what records you wanted to play. By then, the amp tubes would be warm enough.

 

[fivestringgecko]

Would definitely love to try a Kiesel! I put together a Carvin bolt-on bass kit back in the early aughts. It was a nice playing instrument!

Everything is obviously personal preference of course, but the Icons are among my favorite playing/feeling instruments I've had the fortune to lay hands on, and that includes a few (not mine) Foderas. I have three Icons and an SB5000 fretless spanning from 2013 to 2019. The SB and one Icon are Carvin, the other two Icons are Kiesel, and they're all excellent. Feel free to DM me if you want, happy to share more info and we can avoid derailing this thread.

Picked up another fun piece of gear. An Ampeg PF-50T. While technically not a preamp, it does have a preamp...

I've often thought about doing this exact thing as I've followed this thread. For the same price as some of these high end tube DIs, it'd be a killer tube DI for Ampeg sound with the added flexibility of having a power amp section. I happen to have a pair of PH115HEs that would pair oh so nicely with it for gigs that would need an amp. (The thought of bringing my PF500 as a DI has crossed my mind on occasion, too)

Will look forward to following your extended thoughts on it. At 20lbs, I wonder if it might be a tad cumbersome to cart to a gig.

5sg.

 

[SteveC]

I thought about it, too. Or a Bergantino BAmp. But an amp sitting on the ground just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. My REDDI seems a little more practical.

 

[chadhargis]

I've often thought about doing this exact thing as I've followed this thread. For the same price as some of these high end tube DIs, it'd be a killer tube DI for Ampeg sound with the added flexibility of having a power amp section. I happen to have a pair of PH115HEs that would pair oh so nicely with it for gigs that would need an amp. (The thought of bringing my PF500 as a DI has crossed my mind on occasion, too)

Will look forward to following your extended thoughts on it. At 20lbs, I wonder if it might be a tad cumbersome to cart to a gig.

5sg.

Yeah...it's a little porky, but not like a 98lb SVT head. I don't think I'd haul it to a bar gig, but for recording or playing in church, it wouldn't be too much trouble. I ordered a Gator bag for it so I can transport it easier. All I'd need is a tuner and I'd get good to go.

I have other rigs that are light weight and not as fragile for those beer swilling gigs.

 

[scubaduba]

I have really been enjoying the JT Amplification Alpha preamp. Very tubey and warm yet punchy. Nice form factor too.

 

[chadhargis]

I have really been enjoying the JT Amplification Alpha preamp. Very tubey and warm yet punchy. Nice form factor too.

I'd love to try them all. Maybe I'll win the lottery some day.

 

[Jesuguru]

Yeah...it's a little porky, but not like a 98lb SVT head. I don't think I'd haul it to a bar gig, but for recording or playing in church, it wouldn't be too much trouble. I ordered a Gator bag for it so I can transport it easier. All I'd need is a tuner and I'd get good to go.

I have other rigs that are light weight and not as fragile for those beer swilling gigs.

On the topic of small(er) amps as tube DI's with bonus power, I'm still enamored with my recently acquired Walkabout. Sounds fantastic through its Scout 12" cab, and run through my Berg NV610T... maybe best tone I've ever achieved.

As for the DI? Heard great things, will find out for myself at church Sunday. May still bring the SLO3 I've been using for years for comparison at least.

 

[EastCoastThump]

At 20lbs, I wonder if it might be a tad cumbersome to cart to a gig.

On the topic of small(er) amps as tube DI's with bonus power, I'm still enamored with my recently acquired Walkabout...As for the DI? Heard great things, will find out for myself at church Sunday.

I've hung onto a pair of Walkabouts and still use them for the right live gigs. Very nice sounding DI, tapped after the tube that feeds the Mosfet power section.

I've experimented w/ using a WA as a racked DI for a band that does all IEM gigs with no stage amps. The weight wasn't such an issue given the particular circumstances (trailered gear in rolling racks, gigs at venues with reliable loading-docks, etc.) The tone is great. Add HPF, and it's pretty much all there. But ultimately I didn't want to leave the Walkabout living in the band's stage racks.

edit: currently running HXS into a Noble.

 

[R&B]

Picked up another fun piece of gear. An Ampeg PF-50T. While technically not a preamp, it does have a preamp...and a very nice one at that. A couple of 12AX7 tubes and a very usable three band EQ with selectable mid frequency. As far as a DI goes, you get two choices...a preamp DI and a transformer out DI. The transformer out DI comes AFTER the power section, so you get the sound of those hot tubes (and yes...they get hot and glow like old fashioned Christmas tree lights).

I just got it today, so I need to do some more playing with it and let the new wear off a bit to tame the "new toy" bias. But I'll just say this...I paid less for the used PF-50T than I've seen used REDDI or Noble units going for. I've owned a Noble. I've owned a Oracle. I've owned a Shift Line Olympic. I've owned a LeBass. I've own a Tube Injection. I've owned a LOT of tube preamps. I currently own a nice digital board with good tube emulation. But it's been a long time since I played with a real tube head. Last time was an SVT head...all 98lbs of it. The PF-50T is only about 20lbs. And my initial impressions....

It's glorious.

It's not only an auditory thrill, but you can smell the dust burning off the tubes. You can feel the heat rising off of it. The amp reacts to your playing like it's alive. Very very cool piece of kit.

Ummmm....I can smell the dust burning off the tubes...must be warmed up. Time to play some more.

Sound clips will be coming soon.

Dude! Tubes are indeed glorious. You sound like one of us:

Low-Wattage Tubesters Official Club

 

[chadhargis]

Dude! Tubes are indeed glorious. You sound like one of us:

Low-Wattage Tubesters Official Club

One of you indeed!

I have owned (and still own) many tube preamps. I haven't used an amp on a gig in a LONG time, so I have never owned a tube amp. The PF-50T is my first one, and it's never been connected to a speaker since I've owned it. I don't even have a 1/4" speaker cable to hook it up yet.

But as a DI...it's really nice. I have tried both DI outs on the amp. The preamp out and the transformer out. There is no contest. The transformer out sounds much better. The preamp out is good too...on par with all the top notch tube preamps. It reminds me a lot of the Noble...and it should...it's got two 12AX7 tubes just like the Noble. But the transformer out has a warmth and a dynamic that I really can describe...but you can hear it. There is a "feel" to it. I know that's not really helpful. But it responds to your playing dynamics in an interactive way. Very cool

Gonna try to get clips up soon. Just been crazy. I had a gig Saturday and played in church Sunday, so my fingers need some rest. LOL!

 

[jacoby75]

One of you indeed!

I have owned (and still own) many tube preamps. I haven't used an amp on a gig in a LONG time, so I have never owned a tube amp. The PF-50T is my first one, and it's never been connected to a speaker since I've owned it. I don't even have a 1/4" speaker cable to hook it up yet.

But as a DI...it's really nice. I have tried both DI outs on the amp. The preamp out and the transformer out. There is no contest. The transformer out sounds much better. The preamp out is good too...on par with all the top notch tube preamps. It reminds me a lot of the Noble...and it should...it's got two 12AX7 tubes just like the Noble. But the transformer out has a warmth and a dynamic that I really can describe...but you can hear it. There is a "feel" to it. I know that's not really helpful. But it responds to your playing dynamics in an interactive way. Very cool

Gonna try to get clips up soon. Just been crazy. I had a gig Saturday and played in church Sunday, so my fingers need some rest. LOL!

Not that my wallet needs to know the answer to this question, but I wonder how something like this compares to the Broughton P15 or even the Arkham stuff.

 

[chadhargis]

Not that my wallet needs to know the answer to this question, but I wonder how something like this compares to the Broughton P15 or even the Arkham stuff.

I've never owned or tested an Broughton P15, but I owned and gigged with a Arkham Oracle for quite awhile. The Oracle is very good. And I'd say the preamp DI on the PF-50T is very similar to the DI out on other full voltage tube preamp pedals like the Noble, Oracle, Tube Injection, etc.

The difference the PF-50 brings is the big softball sized output transformer that gets nice and warm as it's pushed by two 6L6 tube which can also be used to keep your coffee warm if you sit it on top of the tube cage.

The preamp section is the bulk of the tone, but the power section is the "feel". I really can't pin it down as far as terms are concerned. It's something you can hear, but you can feel it when you play. It's like it has life to it. It breathes and moves with you. That's probably a stupid description. I will make some clips some time this week.

When you consider the price....at full retail it's $1000...if you can find one in stock. I bought my used for a few hundred less than retail. The money I paid for the PF-50 is far less than even a used Noble is selling for. It's less than the Oracle is selling for. It's less than a REDDI is selling for. I only paid about $200 more for the PF-50 than I did for my used Tube Injection.

The handicap for the PF-50 is the size and weight. It's not a pedal. It's also about 20lbs...which for a tube amp is a featherweight. I bought a full set of tubes for it to have on hand just in case....better to have and not need, than need and not have. The tubes alone were $200.

I don't think I'd ever gig with it just because a beer dumped on the hot tubes would cost more cash than I'd probably make on the gig. But for home recording or playing in church, it would be fantastic and not so big and heavy that it's cumbersome to transport.

 

[jacoby75]

I've never owned or tested an Broughton P15, but I owned and gigged with a Arkham Oracle for quite awhile. The Oracle is very good. And I'd say the preamp DI on the PF-50T is very similar to the DI out on other full voltage tube preamp pedals like the Noble, Oracle, Tube Injection, etc.

The difference the PF-50 brings is the big softball sized output transformer that gets nice and warm as it's pushed by two 6L6 tube which can also be used to keep your coffee warm if you sit it on top of the tube cage.

The preamp section is the bulk of the tone, but the power section is the "feel". I really can't pin it down as far as terms are concerned. It's something you can hear, but you can feel it when you play. It's like it has life to it. It breathes and moves with you. That's probably a stupid description. I will make some clips some time this week.

When you consider the price....at full retail it's $1000...if you can find one in stock. I bought my used for a few hundred less than retail. The money I paid for the PF-50 is far less than even a used Noble is selling for. It's less than the Oracle is selling for. It's less than a REDDI is selling for. I only paid about $200 more for the PF-50 than I did for my used Tube Injection.

The handicap for the PF-50 is the size and weight. It's not a pedal. It's also about 20lbs...which for a tube amp is a featherweight. I bought a full set of tubes for it to have on hand just in case....better to have and not need, than need and not have. The tubes alone were $200.

I don't think I'd ever gig with it just because a beer dumped on the hot tubes would cost more cash than I'd probably make on the gig. But for home recording or playing in church, it would be fantastic and not so big and heavy that it's cumbersome to transport.

View attachment 4760935

Yeah, I had a Broughton SSDI a while back that I foolishly sold. It had that difficult-to-quantify "heft" and "feel" that we so often talk about. I think it was largely due to the ginormous metal transformer. You can't recreate that kind of feel or response with a digital anything. I don't care who you are. I may need to pick up a P15 some day, just for poops and giggles. Because I don't studio these days. I mostly gig . . . when I do anything. And yes, I wouldn't want something that costs $1,000 sitting on the floor waiting to have beer or jello shots dumped on it.

 

[SteveC]

Thankfully I'm at the back of the stage so the kids are better for me. My $1K REDDI is on the floor, under my synth.

 

[chadhargis]

Thankfully I'm at the back of the stage so the kids are better for me. My $1K REDDI is on the floor, under my synth.

I played a gig a few weeks ago and the stage was so small only the drums fit on it. I was standing in the door where people were walking in and out. I'd have to move my bass neck to let them in like a toll gate. LOL!