The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[chadhargis]

For church I plan to find one, maybe 2 amp/cab settings I like, a compressor and call it good. Maybe a slight drive for some tunes, and an octave for some "synthy" type tone. A Pod Go may have worked. I guess I went HX so it "matched" what the guitar has.

If I end up liking this (may take it home and try some "cover band patches" and see what I think) I may explore a Pod Go but I don't really need an expression/volume pedal and I like the size of the HX. I know a few people who use and like a Quad Cortex, the "extreme" of modeling. Not sure I need all that though.

A volume pedal is a must for me. We do far too many swells at the end of songs in church to be without one. If I happen to play one of my Jazz basses with dual volume controls, you can't easily do swells using the volume knob. I also use it as a big, easy to hit, mute function. I will use it to control dynamics some too. Cool thing about the POD Go is you can move the volume pedal anywhere in the chain you want, so you can have you full signal hitting a drive or comp and control the volume with the pedal. Another cool thing is when you save the patch, it saves the volume pedal position. I have all my custom patches set to be muted when I select them. Move the volume pedal and it reads the current position.

 

[MascisMan]

I know a few people who use and like a Quad Cortex, the "extreme" of modeling. Not sure I need all that though.

Not sure I would call the QC 'the extreme of modeling." At its core it is essentially the same thing as the Stomp, just more DSP (allowing more blocks and paths) and more switches.

But I get what you mean.

 

[chadhargis]

Just ordered an HX Stomp. Did some digging on the parallel path stuff and the things you can do with it are amazing. What sold me was the ability to split your signal using the crossover function and apply different effects to the top and bottom end. My mind is running wild on that.

I've always hated cab sims as they suck all the really low end out when I'm using the low notes on my B string. But now I can split the signal, and only run the cab sim on frequencies above...say...50hz. Oooooh! Fun!!

 

[SteveC]

A volume pedal is a must for me. We do far too many swells at the end of songs in church to be without one. If I happen to play one of my Jazz basses with dual volume controls, you can't easily do swells using the volume knob. I also use it as a big, easy to hit, mute function. I will use it to control dynamics some too. Cool thing about the POD Go is you can move the volume pedal anywhere in the chain you want, so you can have you full signal hitting a drive or comp and control the volume with the pedal. Another cool thing is when you save the patch, it saves the volume pedal position. I have all my custom patches set to be muted when I select them. Move the volume pedal and it reads the current position.

I don't seem to do a lot of swells. All my basses are master volume which I really like.

Not sure I would call the QC 'the extreme of modeling." At its core it is essentially the same thing as the Stomp, just more DSP (allowing more blocks and paths) and more switches.

But I get what you mean.

Yeah, extreme may have been a little extreme.

 

[Real Soon]

For better or worse, Trickfish has landed on my pedalboard once again. Including the Trilobite.

Do we have any current users frequenting this thread? I'm curious about real-world live and studio use experiences, since it would certainly become a centerpiece of everything I'm doing....

 

[Yamarc]

My current rig runs into a noble preamp and into the effects loop of a fender rumble 500 combo. This is where the heart of my tone comes from.

I'm looking for a transparent pedal / preamp that can sit on my pedalboard. It needs to have an aux in (for mp3 practice) and some tone shaping capabilities.

Nice to have: an amp / IR simulator and headphone amp.

Any ideas?

 

[chadhargis]

My current rig runs into a noble preamp and into the effects loop of a fender rumble 500 combo. This is where the heart of my tone comes from.

I'm looking for a transparent pedal / preamp that can sit on my pedalboard. It needs to have an aux in (for mp3 practice) and some tone shaping capabilities.

Nice to have: an amp / IR simulator and headphone amp.

Any ideas?

It's not really transparent as it does color the tone (in a good way) but the Shift Line Olympic MkIII is excellent and has all the features you want. There is one for sale in the classifieds.

 

[Jesuguru]

My current rig runs into a noble preamp and into the effects loop of a fender rumble 500 combo. This is where the heart of my tone comes from.

I'm looking for a transparent pedal / preamp that can sit on my pedalboard. It needs to have an aux in (for mp3 practice) and some tone shaping capabilities.

Nice to have: an amp / IR simulator and headphone amp.

Any ideas?

Current (bigger) board: tuner > Nightowl Edison (always on) > SV-Pre (often) > Apex Compressor (usually) > dirt du jour (currently Locust Star) > HX Stomp (varies) > Broughton Messenger V2 (always) > effects return of Rumble 500 combo. Messenger, if you can find one, is transparent (though not sterile), dual semi-parametric eq's, HPF/LPF, mute switch, but no aux in. V3 trades one of the para eq's and the mute for aux in and phones.

It's great, but the more I use the HXS the more I feel it handles all the above, plus amps/IRs, effects loop to mix in the analog pedals I'm too stubborn to let go of, and much more. HXS into Noble is arguably an endgame setup.

 

[chadhargis]

the more I use the HXS the more I feel it handles all the above, plus amps/IRs, effects loop to mix in the analog pedals I'm too stubborn to let go of, and much more. .

This!

The Pod Go was my gateway drug (and I still use it), but this rig is unbeatable by anything I've ever tried.

 

[Yamarc]

Chad - do you prefer the HXS over the Pod Go? The interface / screen on the HXS is pretty small…

 

[chadhargis]

Chad - do you prefer the HXS over the Pod Go? The interface / screen on the HXS is pretty small…

It's really a catch 22. My ideal rig would be the Helix LT. It's the best of both.

The Pod Go really does everything I need. The only thing it doesn't do is parallel paths. At first I was like, "Who needs those?" but it really is nice to be able to split your signal and run half of it through effects while your clean signal goes uneffected and you can bring them back together at any point after the split. It opens up a ton of possibilities and keeps that nice fat low end when using distortion. The HX Stomp also has more input and output flexibility.

The PodGo has effects that are always there and you can't remove them. This limits what you can do with it, but again....it gives me FAR FAR FAR more than I've need. It also has more buttons and a volume pedal. You can add buttons and a volume pedal (or effects pedal) to the HX Stomp...but there is a law of diminishing return where you should just get the Helix LT. If I'm not using an external amp and cab, I usually just use the Pod Go. It's easier to use on stage as it's physically larger and the screen is easier to read.

The HXS is small, pedalboard friendly, and more powerful than I'll ever need. It's really amazing what it will do. I have set up patches on it for what I call "Standalone Mode". I reserve the 3rd button for the tuner (but I have a device coming that will allow me to access the tuner without programming a button for it). I can take the tiny HX Stomp that is about the size of my hand, toss it in my gig bag, and have an entire rig with nothing else needed. The only reason I run an external compressor is because the Becos is designed with bass in mind and has a function that keeps it from compressing the lows as much. It also has great metering so I know how hard I'm hitting it. I run the Turbo Tuner because it's my favorite tuner and it has a "Mute on power up" function that I like. Of course, I could program the HXS to mute on power up too. Very easy. I also use the HXS as an effects pedal when I use an amp and cab on a gig. I have a patch called "To Amp" that removes all signal processing but leaves the Becos compressor in the loop and I have a drive, octave, and chorus available if I want them. I can make other patches if songs require it. So it functions great just as a multieffects unit in front of my SVT and cab.

In essence, the HX Stomp is all the rig I'd ever need. Tuner, compressor, EQ, preamp, cab sim, fuzz, overdrive, octaver, etc. It has everything. And since I'm an Ampeg guy at heart, and Line6 is owned by Yamaha....who also owns Ampeg....all the Ampeg goodness is in there including their bass effect pedals.

I recently ordered a Baby Sumo power amp to use with the HX Stomp. It will give me an ultra small portable rig when pared with my Barefaced One10T cab.

There is just so much flexibility in the Pod/HX/Helix stuff and it actually sounds really good. Not just "good for a digital emulation"...no...it sounds REALLY good...period.

I started this thread years ago seeking my "perfect tone". I have tried scores of preamps...analog and digital....tube and solid state. I tried going all digital years ago, and the technology just wasn't there yet. It sounded "emulated". The Line 6 stuff really sounds authentic. I've compared it against the darlings of high dollar preamps and it stands right with them.

To top it off...I always carry a backup preamp. Typically my Ampeg SCR-DI. If my guitar players rig dies...I have all his patches loaded in my Pod Go and HXS so he can just plug in his XLR and keep on rocking.

 

[SteveC]

@chadhargis you make a pretty strong case for the HXS. I just started using one at church and it's pretty impressive. I only have a couple presets, but that's all I really need. I plan to try @furym's way to use the HXS as my IEM box as well. If I can make that work at church, that will be a really strong case for the HXS as my one and only box for my personal/cover band use. Tuner, effects, Preamp, DI, IEM box. That pretty much covers what I use now in a much bigger analog rig. Turbo Tuner, Empress Bass Compressor, Bass Soul Food, Rolls PMs50 for my wired IEM's on a Nano board with DC5 power underneath into a REDDI.

I slipped the church HXS into my gig bag and brought home to experiment with this week/weekend and it was so slick to have EVERYTHING I need in my gig bag. Bass, cables, HXS. Done. No Pelican case. I LOVE my analog rig and sound, but honestly, for my gigs and most peoples ears. the HXS gets me 90% of the sound for 25% of the size and price.

The HXS is moving up to my #1 option. Still would like to hear the new Berg pedal. I don't think it will be able to do the IEM thing, but it does have everything else I use (compressor and drive) and it is a dedicated bass preamp and Bergantino so it will probably sound awesome. It has multiple presets and drive options. I don't use effects much other than drive and compression so it does have what I NEED and the Rolls isn't that big a deal to have extra.

I am anxious to give it a try.

 

[fivestringgecko]

I slipped the church HXS into my gig bag and brought home to experiment with this week/weekend and it was so slick to have EVERYTHING I need in my gig bag. Bass, cables, HXS. Done. No Pelican case. I LOVE my analog rig and sound, but honestly, for my gigs and most peoples ears. the HXS gets me 90% of the sound for 25% of the size and price.

Welcome to the Helix family. This is exactly why I have yet to pull the trigger on a fancy tube DI. Kind of hard to justify a $600-$1000+ DI when the HXS is as good as it is. (No offense to the tube DI aficionados in this thread... I certainly still want some cool tube powered DI something or other of course. )

And the best part is: they keep adding/updating the firmware for free. The most recent update revamped their cab engine to take significantly less DSP, along with some cool new models.

I'm actually thinking about snagging a second Stomp on a Black Friday sale somewhere to have a desktop/backup Stomp.

5sg.

 

[4Mal]

@SteveC I've been up down the HX chain. Effects, Stomp, Stomp XL, LT. The Stomp is the sweet spot for me. I use a DIY external dual switch set for Tuner on/off and as Comp on/off. I'm currently using an Atlas in one of the efx loops as my comp. The LA Studio and Rochester comps in the HX aren't bad. In the end I may revert and dispose of the Atlas.

The HX is not last in my chain though. That spot is currently a SushiBox. Either a Space Heater, Underground Accellerator or More. The tubey stuff does add something I have not been able to get from the HX.

I have and could again gig with the HX, wireless interface and external switch as it. The whole enchilada. There is more space on my PedalTrain Mini though so why would I?

I am somewhat underwhelmed by amp modelling regrdless of platform. When I ran just the HX and no externL preamp, I seemed to have more luck in my inserting the HX Microphone Preamp and a cabinet IR. I like the Shawn Sommers B15 cabinet IR for blues, country and R&B. $5.00 well spent. I suspect it would not have enough top end for gospel or slap though.

I audition my patches using headphones but in my bands we are still amps on stage and probably always will be. My amps are not FRFR but they are reasonably neutral.

I'm a big user of 1 octave down and 1 octave up, not always at the same time... The crossover split function in the HX really cleans up the ick that happens with most all sub-octave effects below about low A. Nice clean punchy lows and a gradual increase of the sub octave level just above the icky, glitchy range. The nice clear chorus or whatever on top. That alone makes the HX worth the price of admission for me.

 

[4Mal]

Volume balancing HX patches - the sleazy way... got some chains that are really well dialed in, except the volume levels jump around when you change betwen them ?

If you have a block to burn... Add a Simple EQ as one of your last blocks.

Hook your HX into a mixer with LED ladder. Play and set the volume on the simple EQ so the last green led in the ladder lights up on the loudest notes. Save the patch, move to the next patch. My adjustments are often adjusting the level down. Wash, Rinse, Repeat as Necessary...

In my case I use a digital mixer with an ipad interface and I'm trying to just light up the -12db segment.

This is the quick and dirty way of getting around the issue when your patches otherwise sound good. Better would be to audition and adjust at each block insertion along the way but... if you have a block to burn, this works.

 

[chadhargis]

Welcome to the Helix family. This is exactly why I have yet to pull the trigger on a fancy tube DI. Kind of hard to justify a $600-$1000+ DI when the HXS is as good as it is. (No offense to the tube DI aficionados in this thread... I certainly still want some cool tube powered DI something or other of course. )

I still have a tube DI as I love the nostalgia of it. I have a 1945 JAN NOS tube in it. It's just cool. I also have a tube amp...an Ampeg PF-50T. It's awesome too. But for a live gig, nothing is better than the Line6 gear.

Volume balancing HX patches - the sleazy way... got some chains that are really well dialed in, except the volume levels jump around when you change betwen them ?

You can always go to the output block and turn the level up or down for each patch.

I have 8 different basses and it seems no two have the same output volume. Some are quieter than others, so I have pad programmed on the input for my hotter basses and a +3db boost for my lower output basses. I have those assigned to external buttons 4 & 5. My compressor meter shows me if I need more or less signal.

 

[SteveC]

@SteveC
The HX is not last in my chain though. That spot is currently a SushiBox. Either a Space Heater, Underground Accellerator or More. The tubey stuff does add something I have not been able to get from the HX.

I have no doubt the HXS would sound even better through my REDDI, but the point is to get smaller.

 

[4Mal]

@chadhargis Yep. That works. My method is meant to be just quick and dirty. Your's saves a block, I may convert for that reason.

My bass gain balancing is done via a front end switch ( Lehle 3@1) so my signal is consistent before I hit the HX.

 

[4Mal]

well a finally is smaller than a Reddi but then so is a pair of Jordan Air's ;-) Personally I would be missing the Reddi. I go back and forth with an Oracle due to the size. Hoping one day for a Zepher that I can rack up with an F1X and off load all the preamps to a rack - Yeah I know... not smaller...

 

[scubaduba]

I love tube gear. I really do. Having gone down the digital path before, I could never fully convert. I'd always come back to my tube gear.

But, I now have a Neural Quad Cortex. And I've done captures of most of my tube gear and it is remarkable how accurate the captures are. It is possible with just the Quad Cortex to have a chain consisting of compressor into tube preamp capture into tube DI capture via XLR out on the Quad Cortex. Or throw any other real pedal capture in that mix. So essentially, tube gear that would have been on a pedal board or laying beside a pedalboard (like a REDDI) are now captures in my Quad Cortex. So one day I could use a Noble preamp capture via a REDDI as the DI out, for example. On another day I could use a Oracle preamp capture into a Khan DI capture out to FOH via the Quad Cortex DI, for example.

Still love tube gear though!