@projectapollo i loved reading your findings. One question, how does the caveman compare to your RNDI-M?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison
- Thread starter chadhargis
- Start date
Caveman is very different than the RNDI. The RNDI maybe adds a little color, but I have never A/B'd it to grasp what it's doing fully. Not dramatic. The Caveman is doing much more to your tone and in a good way. Janek and Ian King use the Caveman. Janek says he likes how it feels under his fingers, and I can see that. To provide some reference points, the Caveman low end contour is similar to the DCX Bass in the "direct to console" sample setting or similar to adding a Low Rider to your signal. That ball park. But it also adds a definition to the notes, as well.
My experience thus far is in headphones playing with multi-tracks CCM songs sans bass. Once I get it up in our 1400 person worship center sound system it may be a different experience (and often is). On that system, the Origin Bassrigs did not translate well while the DCX Bass does (it's the only preamp I really need for that system, just the DCX into RNDI). The Caveman is like the DCX on steroids but without the saturation. That makes sense since they are both trying to replicate a console pre. Again, this is all based on a Fender P bass with rounds and a Lakland P bass with TI flats. The flats sound really good in the Caveman, BTW.
Coming full circle, I've been using a Tone Hammer for quite a while and get great results with it. But I've been craving a more clean professional tone, probably watching too many Sean Hurley videos and his tone journey. So, I ordered a Noble with delivery next September. This Christmas-gift-to-myself shoot-out was to find something to use for the next year. In the end I like the Caveman and the Broughton P15. To me they are each best in class for what they do - one console, one B15 tube pre. I plan to keep these two and move along the others. I'll probably keep the Tone Hammer as a gig bag back-up since you can throw it on the floor, phantom power it, and go with no surprises.
I should mention the Colourbox. It was in the shootout as was the Broughton Studio One. So, three "Neve" inspired devices. The Colourbox was very good, indeed, and more of the Neve vibe than the Studio One. The eq is excellent, but a little baffling with no frequency reference points. The Colourbox gain staging scheme is confusing and not very useful, the edge of breakup setting was there but difficult to precisely dial in, other unnecessary features, and the overall form factor a little clumsy. If you are recording at home, I totally get the Colourbox. As a bass guitar stomp box, it sounded great but added too many clever unnecessary things.
Should I mention the new Origin Bassrig Fifteen? Love the amp sim, but the cab sim is too vintage for my use case. The Broughton P15 is a way better solution because, hey, it's the real B15 circuit. The Fifteen was over $600 w/tax, yikes. The Fifteen and Colourbox were returned to Sweetwater. If I were to own one Bassrig it would be the Super Vintage. I've tired all three in our large worship center PA.
Thats a long answer, LOL. But it's early and I'm on my second cup of coffee journaling my experiences so I don't forget, as I often do. I love the TB Dirt Journal and his excellent journaling all the dirt details. @el murdoque
Last edited:
@projectapollo Did I see an Oracle on your list? How did it compare?
If you decide to list it and it has a D.I., please PM me. It’s one I’m interested in trying out. Thanks in advance!
If you decide to list it and it has a D.I., please PM me. It’s one I’m interested in trying out. Thanks in advance!
I did include the Oracle in the shootout. It was on-loan to me. It's right up there with the Broughton P15 and sounds very good. The tone controls and eq were a bit much and the power supply situation awkward, suggesting investment in a CIOKS Crux. In the end, I preferred the plug-and-play instant gratification simplicity of the Broughton. A used P15 is cheaper, as well. I'm not going on tour so having a P15 that I carry in and set up beside my pedal board is not a problem.
Oh, interesting! The power is a cord with a brick in the middle or it just needed lots of mA?
Thanks!
I think if you are going to install an Oracle on a pedal board (it's a little tall), you would want the Crux to simplify powering it. Otherwise you have the wall wart and second cable running to your pedal board.
In my shootout, it took me all of 15 seconds to realize that the P15 was a great solution. I was smiling right away. I found myself working the Oracle controls. Too many tone controls causes me paralysis and I fiddle too much. Thats just me and perhaps some others who like well engineered simplicity. IAM would probably like all the Oracle controls while Scott would like the P15 two knobs.
Last edited:
I bet!
Grammatically this post was a little below standard. As others have mentored, can you do better please?
I bet!
Grammatically this post was a little below standard. As others have mentored, can you do better please?
G'day, mate!...(got it right this time!). I'll try to work on things in 2026. Not sure if I can make it til midnight NYE so I've resigned myself to watching the live feed from Sydney.
Riis
Can anyone make some direct comparisons between the Capo and Sushi box Finally? I'm considering a board shuffle. The Capo isn't going anywhere.
The differences are many but I'm more talking about how the Finally sounds on the edge of break up compared to the Capo with a similar setting.
The differences are many but I'm more talking about how the Finally sounds on the edge of break up compared to the Capo with a similar setting.
This seems like an apples and giraffes comparison?
@projectapollo you said you were getting great results with the Tone Hammer, can you elaborate on what you feel the P-15, Caveman Compact, and Oracle deliver sound wise that the Tone Hammer doesn’t?
Absolutely. Still interested in anyone's thoughts that have both.
Will be running a HXS in front, so have EQ and amp sim options.
I don't think you speak for anyone but yourself. And don't insinuate otherwise.
Zooberwerx is a highly respected and technically adept member of the community.
Your snarky comment was inaccurate and uncalled for.
Oh, and problematic as well.....
Last edited:
Know this is a painfully obvious thing to say, but the SB thread has an equally strong and supportive community and I'm pretty sure there are people there that have or had both. Good people, good gear, extremely accessible maker.
I've been avoiding that subforum for a while because there's SB stuff I want to get but life-wise now is not the time sadly....
I haven't tried a Capo but the Finally is like a Broughton HPF + Edison + a DI with options, plus it's got that Unagi transformer
Last edited:
Wise words. I had searched for the Finally in the Capo thread, but not vice versa. 6th post on the search was exactly what I needed to read.Know this is a painfully obvious thing to say, but the SB thread has an equally strong and supportive community and I'm pretty sure there are people there that have or had both. Good people, good gear, extremely accessible maker.
I've been avoiding that subforum for a while because there's SB stuff I want to get but life-wise now is not the time sadly....
I haven't tried a Capo but the Finally is like a Broughton HPF + Edison + a DI with options, plus it's got that Unagi transformer
The Tone Hammer is used with the AGS always-on for my church CCM use case. In that set-up the TH rolls of the lows and highs somewhat, giving it a bit of an amp-in-a-box vibe. So, I was looking for a nice full range high-end alternative that keeps my P Bass sounding like my P Bass but better. The Noble gets so much press and admiration for that application, I thought that would be a good way to go (and ordered one for delivery in September). Some guys use the Tone Hammer w/AGS and run it into a Noble at the end of the chain. So. I was looking for something like that. As my testing continues, last night I tried running the Tone Hammer w/AGS through the Caveman's loop and was impressed. Switch off the TH and get the Caveman's deep Neve vibe which sounds really nice in a sparse mix, switch it back on for some drive and it helps pull back that Caveman low end bump and slot into more dense mix and makes the TH sound richer and better. Will any of this be noticeable on a busy Sunday morning in our large worship center using silent stage and IEMs and FOH doing who-knows-what processing to the bass? Maybe not and the Tone Hammer is a tried and testing solution for that use case. BUT -- I practice a lot at home in headphones and both the Caveman and P15 make that experience much more satisfying. I hope this is helpful.
Last edited:
FWIW, I found the P-15 and Noble to be very different. Still have a P-15.
Capo into a Khan is still doing it for me. The drive on the Capo is stellar, and I have plenty of alternatives gathering dust in the studio…
Capo into a Khan is still doing it for me. The drive on the Capo is stellar, and I have plenty of alternatives gathering dust in the studio…
@projectapollo Thanks! I have the Tone Hammer which I also use a lot for silent practice, both with the AGS on and off depending on what I’m doing. I’ve been gassing for an Oracle or Noble, probably from reading threads like this, but the TH / Caveman combo is an intriguing option.
Have you done any comparisons between the Caveman, Oracle, or P15 and the TH with the AGS off?
Have you done any comparisons between the Caveman, Oracle, or P15 and the TH with the AGS off?
Last edited:
