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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

#1,461
jacoby75 said:
Don't get me wrong. I'm always looking for reasons to spend money I don't have. But I don't get it. What's it doing, exactly? I'm not hearing a significant difference (though my computer speakers with a sub or my IEM's). I'm thinking maybe it sounds a little warmer with the 2020? The most discernible difference is going from 2 2020's back to the 0 mark of the video. But it still seems subtle. It's difficult to tell with the fingernail-style playing. But color me intrigued. I definitely want to hear more.
Click to expand...

So similar to the Rupert Neve RNDI, but the 2020 isn't a DI. From RNDI: Rupert Neve DI

"The significance of the RNDI’s class-A design is that there is no crossover distortion added to the signal, which can add upper order odd harmonics to the sound that are musically dissonant in nature. With the RNDI, the overwhelming majority of harmonic content is 2nd order (octave) with some 3rd order present (fifth above octave). These musically relevant harmonics – present in subtle amounts – actually add to the richness of the original signal"
 
#1,462
tedsalt said:
So similar to the Rupert Neve RNDI, but the 2020 isn't a DI. From RNDI: Rupert Neve DI

"The significance of the RNDI’s class-A design is that there is no crossover distortion added to the signal, which can add upper order odd harmonics to the sound that are musically dissonant in nature. With the RNDI, the overwhelming majority of harmonic content is 2nd order (octave) with some 3rd order present (fifth above octave). These musically relevant harmonics – present in subtle amounts – actually add to the richness of the original signal"
Click to expand...

But does it djent?
 
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#1,463
tedsalt said:
So similar to the Rupert Neve RNDI, but the 2020 isn't a DI. From RNDI: Rupert Neve DI

"The significance of the RNDI’s class-A design is that there is no crossover distortion added to the signal, which can add upper order odd harmonics to the sound that are musically dissonant in nature. With the RNDI, the overwhelming majority of harmonic content is 2nd order (octave) with some 3rd order present (fifth above octave). These musically relevant harmonics – present in subtle amounts – actually add to the richness of the original signal"
Click to expand...
That was kind of the gist I got from going from the point of the video where he's using 2 of them back to when he's using none of them. It sounded like the difference between playing through a mediocre passive DI and a good transformer-based DI. The tone sounded a bit "rounder" for lack of a a better descriptor. Of course for the price of two of them you could get an actual good DI, if that's what you wanted. But the point of the 2020 (as I understand it thus far) is not to compete with high-end DI's. It's not a DI, and you can put the 2020 (or 2020's) anywhere in your chain. For my purposes, I would be intrigued to try one at the end of my direct-only pedalboard right before the DI and see if it spices up the tone in any significant way. I have a "good" DI, a Radial Stagebug (passive). I would imagine there would be in improvement, if subtle. I'd love something like a Neve, but try to keep my DI's passive due to frequent limitations with church sound people/equipment.
 
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#1,467
scubaduba said:
I'd like to try the 2020 directly in front of my RNDI to see what I notice, if anything.
Click to expand...
Hey @lightningboy , please send him one so we can all live vicariously through his experience. If scuba gives it a thumbs up, you'll likely have at least 20-30 sales the next day. Just a ballpark. Let's be honest. How many compressors have people bought because of Scuba's reviews? It's been at least three for me so far.
 
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#1,468
Aside:
If some of the above is true (2020, etc) - and I guess it could be, as transformers really do those things - then amp designers should reconsider the use of interstage transformers, which went out of style many decades ago.
And also, an expensive hi-fi transformer is not needed for this application.
 
#1,469
I've set my Arkham Oracle to match (approximately) the settings in Paul Nowitski's Arkham Zephyr youtube video.

Here's what Paul's settings are:

gain 4 (10:30-11:00)
treble 3 (9:10)
range 5 (11:50)
bass 7 (2:20)
pre out 3 (9:00)
di out 4 (10:45; master on Oracle)
hi down
mid up
lo up
hpf down

Fed by the LA-1A then output to the RNDI.

Typically playing my VMP5 with Sadowsky Blue Label Flatwounds.

Talk about a beautiful vintage vibe!
 
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#1,471
tedsalt said:
I've set my Arkham Oracle to match (approximately) the settings in Paul Nowitski's Arkham Zephyr youtube video.

Here's what Paul's settings are:

gain 4 (10:30-11:00)
treble 3 (9:10)
range 5 (11:50)
bass 7 (2:20)
pre out 3 (9:00)
di out 4 (10:45; master on Oracle)
hi down
mid up
lo up
hpf down

Fed by the LA-1A then output to the RNDI.

Typically playing my VMP5 with Sadowsky Blue Label Flatwounds.

Talk about a beautiful vintage vibe!
Click to expand...
I just felt a twitch start.
 
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#1,477
Turn Em Loose said:
I’ve had the Felix in the past. IMO it is unmatched in pristine clean tone. On both electric and upright. It’s kinda freaky, really. I don’t own it now as it was overkill for my in-the-trenches kind of gigs.

I’ll be curious to hear your thoughts on the Bix.
Click to expand...

IMG_20200330_173825~2.jpg

I just compared the Bix to a very nice piece of kit from Lehle.

Specs:

The Lehle is a discrete class A mixer/preamp with what I assume are +15v/-15v rails.

The Bix seems to have +16v/-16v rails with a less often implemented transimpedance circuit. See google.

The input impedance is 10Mohm for the BIX and 2Mohm for the Lehle.

Max input/output levels are about the same @ +20/+22 for the Lehle and +22/+22 for the Bix.

Noisefloor is -100dBu for the Lehle and -107dBu for the Bix. I'm assuming minimum gain for both.

Sound:

At lower gain levels they sound quite similar to each other as most quality preamps do. The Lehle sounds as clean or cleaner than anything I've tried before it. Until the Bix.

The Bix is deceptively smooth. It handles high frequency transients without any glare or harshness. Bottom never gets soft. This becomes much more pronounced as you raise the gain for both units. Tons of headroom. Pay no attention to the red "clip" light. Still has a lot to give above that threshold.

The Bix is real quiet(noise free). Quieter than anything I've tested. You only get a faint hiss out of it near maximum gain or max treble boost(which I doubt anyone does). I can reach my max rig output with no noise added from a preamp. That's a first for me. The Lehle is also very quiet, enough for any situation, but not silent like the Bix.

The Lehle does have a nice "color" when pushed a bit. I can see some people preferring it in a comparison. More amp like.

So I have to agree with you. It does appear to be second to none in pristine clean tone. This doesn't mean boring by any stretch. Even good speakers and headphones add a lot more distortion than decent electronics. The extra front end clarity is a plus in my book. Can always dirty it up later.
 

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#1,480
fast slapper said:
View attachment 3765222

I just compared the Bix to a very nice piece of kit from Lehle.

Specs:

The Lehle is a discrete class A mixer/preamp with what I assume are +15v/-15v rails.

The Bix seems to have +16v/-16v rails with a less often implemented transimpedance circuit. See google.

The input impedance is 10Mohm for the BIX and 2Mohm for the Lehle.

Max input/output levels are about the same @ +20/+22 for the Lehle and +22/+22 for the Bix.

Noisefloor is -100dBu for the Lehle and -107dBu for the Bix. I'm assuming minimum gain for both.

Sound:

At lower gain levels they sound quite similar to each other as most quality preamps do. The Lehle sounds as clean or cleaner than anything I've tried before it. Until the Bix.

The Bix is deceptively smooth. It handles high frequency transients without any glare or harshness. Bottom never gets soft. This becomes much more pronounced as you raise the gain for both units. Tons of headroom. Pay no attention to the red "clip" light. Still has a lot to give above that threshold.

The Bix is real quiet(noise free). Quieter than anything I've tested. You only get a faint hiss out of it near maximum gain or max treble boost(which I doubt anyone does). I can reach my max rig output with no noise added from a preamp. That's a first for me. The Lehle is also very quiet, enough for any situation, but not silent like the Bix.

The Lehle does have a nice "color" when pushed a bit. I can see some people preferring it in a comparison. More amp like.

So I have to agree with you. It does appear to be second to none in pristine clean tone. This doesn't mean boring by any stretch. Even good speakers and headphones add a lot more distortion than decent electronics. The extra front end clarity is a plus in my book. Can always dirty it up later.
Click to expand...
I have a Grace stereo preamp that I used to use on bass back when I was all about racks. It sounded great, I preferred it to my various "character" preamps (Avalon, Neve clone, etc). I've definitely considered trying one of the Grace pedal preamps...
 
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