The holocaust..

[grifff]

Depends on what you mean by "something like the holocaust."

If you're talking about an organized, massive-scale ethnic cleansing, probably not.

If you're talking about a whole lot of people dying in a very short amount of time, probably.

Darfur?

 

[kserg]

huh? they killed millions in a very short period of time in an 'orderly fashion'. eficient is certainly a word i would use.

the nazis made money by killing the jews, and lot's of it.

Goal was to wipe out the Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other undesirables. They failed. As sick as it may sound, they could have done much better. They did not. And money made from killing Jews did not cover money spent on killing them. From what I've read - they did not even brake even. If you look at just of income of money that Nazi Government made from presentation camps and labor camps, it looks like a lot, but then when you take away how much they spent on them and you see the inefficiency in the process. If i find the numbers in my old notes I'll post them.



Listening to: Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond

 

[kserg]

And of course, as another pointed out, they used them as slave labor. You can save a lot of money by not paying or caring at all for your workers.

Slave labor is not always profitable. It depends on how it is done. Russian Gulags were labor camps, and they pretty much went bankrupt.

It's true that slave labor is much cheaper then regular labor, however, you have to keep the slaves in some sort of shape. If your slaves die after a week of work and you have to train new ones and as soon as new ones are train they die because you were not taking care of them then where is the profit? Any job needs some time for skill to develop, if you let the person die prior to him getting such skills, you are not fully taken advantage of the slave.

I don't mean to paint US slavery in good light, but no matter how bad slavery is, American slave owners kept their slaves alive. They did not do this because they were so nice, they did it because slavery is not "free" labor. Slaves cost money, and if they die off like flies, you are not going to be making any money.


Listening to: Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond

 

[Norwegianwood]

Goal was to wipe out the Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other undesirables. They failed. As sick as it may sound, they could have done much better.

Well, they certainly did a good job with those who did not emigrate (to somewhere not later occupied by Germany). In Germany, where 200 000 jews lived before the outbreak of war only about 20 000 survived. Of the more than 3 million jews in Poland, just about 90 % was killed. 90 % of the jews in Latvia and 80 % of those in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greece lost their lives.

I'd say they were pretty effective.

 

[Fire-Starter]

All it takes is one sick person who thinks they have a divine right or just a good idea of who has the right to live in regards to race, religion, etc...

Ever heard of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger? and these organizations are all over the place. You could argue that the current organizations don't share her ideas, but you cant get away from the fact that the ideas of the founder of these organizations were hers.

See link below.... and yes it could happen again, what is to stop it

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

 

[aborgman]

In Cambodia, in four years, they killed 1.4 million to 2.2 million people. And that was in a country with a population of 7 million. That's about 20-30% of the population. I would say, for the sheer horror, it's about on par with the holocaust.

Will we ever see the chillingly organized and calculated mass murder of the holocaust again? Hard to say. There have been several genocides since, but none have been organized with such brutal precision as the Nazis' slaughter of Jews, gays, gypsies and other "undesirables."

Actually the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge were pretty precise and organized slaughter of undesirables.

 

[aborgman]

That's the thing about the holocaust. It wasn't a crime of animal passion on a more massive scale. It was coldly executed with efficiency, resources and systems for slaughter carefully calculated.

It was calmly planned, by the side of the human mind that we think of as more reasonable. These top Nazis literally just sat around at a table, quite calm and not inflamed with anger or anything, and plotted out the systematic annihilation of a people. It's mind-boggling.

Not really - seeing as how history is pretty full of just such machinations.

Look at Stalin, collectivization, and the Holodomor - that was just ONE of Stalin's manufactured famines that possibly killed 10 million people.

 

[aborgman]

i also learnt the other day that isreal has some blatantly antisemitic neo nazi groups too, and the most shocking part is that these guys are actually jewish.

A few of the Zionist groups in what is now Israel were actually ALLIED with the Nazi's in WW2.

 

[Johnny Fila]

All it takes is one sick person who thinks they have a divine right or just a good idea of who has the right to live in regards to race, religion, etc...

Ever heard of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger? and these organizations are all over the place. You could argue that the current organizations don't share her ideas, but you cant get away from the fact that the ideas of the founder of these organizations were hers.

See link below.... and yes it could happen again, what is to stop it

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

eugenics

 

[kserg]

Well, they certainly did a good job with those who did not emigrate (to somewhere not later occupied by Germany). In Germany, where 200 000 jews lived before the outbreak of war only about 20 000 survived. Of the more than 3 million jews in Poland, just about 90 % was killed. 90 % of the jews in Latvia and 80 % of those in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greece lost their lives.

I'd say they were pretty effective.

If i have a company, and my goal is create a product. I can create a product and still stay profitable - this is efficient and a success. However if i create a product and go bankrupt in process - it is not success nor was i efficient. Even though my goal was reached and product was developed, i did it in larger cost then it was worth.

 

[vene-nemesis]

If i have a company, and my goal is create a product. I can create a product and still stay profitable - this is efficient and a success. However if i create a product and go bankrupt in process - it is not success nor was i efficient. Even though my goal was reached and product was developed, i did it in larger cost then it was worth.

Cold hearted truth.

 

[GregC]

All it takes is one sick person who thinks they have a divine right or just a good idea of who has the right to live in regards to race, religion, etc...

Ever heard of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger? and these organizations are all over the place. You could argue that the current organizations don't share her ideas, but you cant get away from the fact that the ideas of the founder of these organizations were hers.

See link below.... and yes it could happen again, what is to stop it

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

There's a long history of people taking Sanger's quotes way out of context, quoting publications she was no longer associated with, or flat-out making them up. I can't say for certain that's the case here, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised.

 

[vene-nemesis]

I watched the movie "I robot" the other day and started thinking that it would be awesome to have robots to do the crappy jobs, but then i remembered that when Heron of Alexadria tried to introduce his steam engine the emperor of Alexandria told him to forget about it and "what are we souposed to do with the slaves then?".

So i thought that if we ever get to the "reality" of I robot could there be a new social paradigm in wich there is no use for people who hasnt got proper studies or is unable to get them by either psichic handicaps or monetary posibilities? and would this lead us to introduce birth control procedures and let all of those that dont fit left behind or even prosecuting them?

 

[dougjwray]

As people have pointed out over the years, the Holocaust was different because it took place in a country that was considered one of the most "advanced" in the world-- scientifically, artistically, philosophically, and so on. It was the land of Beethoven, Goethe, Martin Luther, et al.
With its cutting edge technology and know-how, Germany was eminently able to organize and construct a hideously efficient and high tech genocide, while, for some unfathomable reason, shedding any "enlightened" qualities and giving in to primal barbarism.
No one would say that death by machete in a pre-industrialized rural society (like Rwanda) is any better or worse than high tech death in assembly line fashion in a First World country... but the fact that it happened it the latter place made it uniquely shocking and depraved and might have put the world on guard sufficiently to prevent it (a Nazi-style Holocaust) from happening again in the near future. I sure hope so.
Just my humble $.02.

 

[Korladis]

Actually the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge were pretty precise and organized slaughter of undesirables.

They didn't build up a whole infrastructure and figure out exactly how much gas would be required, etc. to do it with. Yes, they had labor camps, but these were rather crude and when they did kill people, they mostly shot them, or in some cases bashed their heads in with stones.

 

[newbold]

Israel is doing really well with their genocide efforts, as well as the World Bank, especially since it's those forces that have propped up every war and 'regime' that has been stated and nearly every one that hasn't.

Have fun with your media-based 'history lesson', folks.

You'll probably see in the next few years how quickly we break and start killing /imprisoning people because we're afraid of the fuzzy logic behind some string of lies.

 

[funkout5]

Anyway the point of this thread is, is there any chance of something like the holocaust happen again this day and age?

Discuss..

It's happening right now in Darfur...

you need to stop learning about history through movies...

 

[IconBasser]

Israel is doing really well with their genocide efforts, as well as the World Bank, especially since it's those forces that have propped up every war and 'regime' that has been stated and nearly every one that hasn't.

Have fun with your media-based 'history lesson', folks.

You'll probably see in the next few years how quickly we break and start killing /imprisoning people because we're afraid of the fuzzy logic behind some string of lies.

umm.... whiskey tango foxtrot?

 

[hbarcat]

Israel is doing really well with their genocide efforts, as well as the World Bank, especially since it's those forces that have propped up every war and 'regime' that has been stated and nearly every one that hasn't.

Have fun with your media-based 'history lesson', folks.

You'll probably see in the next few years how quickly we break and start killing /imprisoning people because we're afraid of the fuzzy logic behind some string of lies.

Does anyone really think we'd be better off getting our history lessons from web sites run by people hiding in their basements and wearing tin-foil hats.

 

[kserg]

umm.... whiskey tango foxtrot?

Does anyone really think we'd be better off getting our history lessons from web sites run by people hiding in their basements and wearing tin-foil hats.

Nah guys, i totally see the pattern between modern Israel and holocaust. Remember how Ann Frank shot a bazooka at the village near the camp...


What i don't see is why people are trying to make this political...