My appologies, it's an 1873. I hope my age doesn't mislead you as to my knowlegde of the instrument. I don't claim to know everything, but I do know some things.
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Double Bass The Makings of a Principle
- Thread starter Aaron Blouin
- Start date
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 75
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
Pete, The William Henley Book is a Dictonary of Violin and Bow makers. It is the most combined comprhensive book I know of. There are mant books of single subject or Single school like Italian or German or just bow Makers but this book of over 1,200 pages has alot of data.
B., (what's your first name?), When I was 18-19 years old, I thought I knew alot about Bass and Basses. Now 35 years later, I realize I only know a little but know 1,000 times more than I did then.. Go figure... lol
B., (what's your first name?), When I was 18-19 years old, I thought I knew alot about Bass and Basses. Now 35 years later, I realize I only know a little but know 1,000 times more than I did then.. Go figure... lol
Thanks, Ken. I just looked it up on Bookfinder.com (one of my very favorite websites, b/t/w).
They offer a lot of copies of the 5-volume set, and the prices range up to $2500 if you want a first edition hardbound.
Is that what you have -- the five volume set?
They offer a lot of copies of the 5-volume set, and the prices range up to $2500 if you want a first edition hardbound.
Is that what you have -- the five volume set?
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 75
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
Mine is titled " Universal Dictonary of Violin and Bow Makers" and is one single book. They go fo $250. - $350. They are out of print so you are at the mercey of the dealers that have them left if any at all 'New'. I don't know about the 5 volume set. Can I see the link to that? Mine is text only without any pictures at all.
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 75
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
Try here; Link Removed
First book. That's what I have, 1973 Edition re-printed in 1997.
and here; [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Just Google it and get lucky...
First book. That's what I have, 1973 Edition re-printed in 1997.
and here; [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Just Google it and get lucky...
KSB - Ken Smith said:
I'm sorry but this all sounds horribly condescending. Don't look down on people just because they are younger than you.
There is (maybe was at this point) a player in the philly orchestra who won his job when he was 19...I bet he knew something about the instrument and, for the purpose of this thread, about playing in an orchestra.
im 17...been playing in orchestras since i picked up a bass, and believe me i know what its like to support a full orchestra!!!
im not criticising anything you said,sorry if i caused offence, i just thought that maybe some input from a wrongly-patronised rank and file member might shed some light on what principal can mean to other people...never mind!
im not criticising anything you said,sorry if i caused offence, i just thought that maybe some input from a wrongly-patronised rank and file member might shed some light on what principal can mean to other people...never mind!
curtis burris. Plays in National now. Good teacher.. good guy. I think one of his students is in the semis for St. Louis right now.
B. Johnson has a nice bass and some dang good chops for a youngin - ask him about his upcoming audition for a 90k a year job.
B. Johnson has a nice bass and some dang good chops for a youngin - ask him about his upcoming audition for a 90k a year job.
Friends, BJohnson and EFischer1 have got it going on. There are so many principals young/old that believe they alone know everything there is to know and have ceased learning entirely. Anyone who really knows a lot knows first and foremost that the more they learn the more they realize there is to learn. Think on that one, eh?
Often the best leaders are the ones who do not desire to lead.
Principals are more of a liason between section and conductor and in the service of these two entities - taking orders from the big boss (conductor) and organising bowings, etc of the section. Servant, not dictator or tyrant. Lead by example.
KSB is right about some pros being totally unable to play one octave scales - usually these creatures got into their jobs before real auditions existed. They were probably never good - you can tell when someone was great and has aged and when they just always sucked.
Ironically, it is usually the absolute worst players that are the most arrogant and outspoken. Or just totally oblivious.
Often the best leaders are the ones who do not desire to lead.
Principals are more of a liason between section and conductor and in the service of these two entities - taking orders from the big boss (conductor) and organising bowings, etc of the section. Servant, not dictator or tyrant. Lead by example.
KSB is right about some pros being totally unable to play one octave scales - usually these creatures got into their jobs before real auditions existed. They were probably never good - you can tell when someone was great and has aged and when they just always sucked.
Ironically, it is usually the absolute worst players that are the most arrogant and outspoken. Or just totally oblivious.
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 75
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
All experiences are real regardless of your age. My original post was to show what happens when 3 Principals from 3 seperate Orchestras play in a different Orchestra together. I am the only one between the 3 of us with 20 years of professional experience. Only a small portion of my work was Orchestral related. All my other work was with just 'One' Bass. I stepped aside so they would not feel overpowered by my better Bass and stronger playing. One Guy plays fairly strong with weak intonation but has never played with the Low 'C' Ext notes or a 5-stringer b4 and was thrown by the sub 'E' notes. The other Guy plays softer than my 13 year old does and couldn't play some of the harder passages and missed many entrances.
When they commented about my Bass and the Lower notes I was playing I figured 'these amatuers have no clue what they are saying and need to work on their own skills'. Since they think they know something, they can have the first chair and I'll bring a 'lesser' Bass that will not make them look as weak But WILL take away the Bottom form the Orchestra. Blending in is not always Musical. What's real to them IS real in their world. Right and wrong doesn't enter into it.
Don't get my "Age" comments mixed up with "condescending". It's not, and was never intended to be. When a 17 or 19 year old have a conversation with a 40 or 50+ year old, some feelings may get missed. All intentions on my behalf were meant to be good and informative. I have learned so much from listening to older people and still to this day enjoy talking with 'my Seniors'. As I get older, less and less of them are around to learn from. Learn to look up to your Elders and try to understand their comments. There is 'plenty' to learn from experience. Experience at 17 or 19 is not the same as experience at 40 or 50.
Katie, you mention grade 6 and grade 8 studies on the Bass. Either that is a UK thing or I studied b4 these levels were made up. Please tell us what that means.. or at least tell me. I am eager to learn from all ages....
When they commented about my Bass and the Lower notes I was playing I figured 'these amatuers have no clue what they are saying and need to work on their own skills'. Since they think they know something, they can have the first chair and I'll bring a 'lesser' Bass that will not make them look as weak But WILL take away the Bottom form the Orchestra. Blending in is not always Musical. What's real to them IS real in their world. Right and wrong doesn't enter into it.
Don't get my "Age" comments mixed up with "condescending". It's not, and was never intended to be. When a 17 or 19 year old have a conversation with a 40 or 50+ year old, some feelings may get missed. All intentions on my behalf were meant to be good and informative. I have learned so much from listening to older people and still to this day enjoy talking with 'my Seniors'. As I get older, less and less of them are around to learn from. Learn to look up to your Elders and try to understand their comments. There is 'plenty' to learn from experience. Experience at 17 or 19 is not the same as experience at 40 or 50.
Katie, you mention grade 6 and grade 8 studies on the Bass. Either that is a UK thing or I studied b4 these levels were made up. Please tell us what that means.. or at least tell me. I am eager to learn from all ages....
This is such a jewel of a post I had to quote it!Prescottissimo said:
Just like the real thing...only better...LOL
its a UK thing. grades 1- 8, with grade 6 being roughly the gouinguene adagio for contrabasse, most of the capuzzi concerto... grade 8 takes you up to the pulcinella Vivo solo and beyond, im studying roughly at diploma ATM, basically solo concerto rep level. for a syllabus see Invalid Link Removed or google ABRSM double bass syllabus.
KSB - Ken Smith said:
Only if you are playing a solo. The greatest sections are those which produce a single sound, NOT those who have overpowering members. Notably enough, this may also be a role of a principal - to understand the dynamic of the section and make sure that the section provides a unified sound.
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 75
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
EFischer1, in a real pro orchestra yes, but this was refrerring to an amatuer community orchestra. If I play like them, the other two Bassists(I use the word loosly), we will be drowned out by the Triangle !!
In the other Regional Orchestra I play in, I can be heard over the others mainly because of my Bass but the Section sounds good as well. The Brass often makes comments on how good the Basses sound. Since Brass players usually hate the Strings, I take this as "doing a good job".. No?
Katie, sounds like your bucking for the Royal Phil. b4 long.. Good luck.. I wish these programs exhisted along with the grading system when I was in "The High School of Music & Art" .
In the other Regional Orchestra I play in, I can be heard over the others mainly because of my Bass but the Section sounds good as well. The Brass often makes comments on how good the Basses sound. Since Brass players usually hate the Strings, I take this as "doing a good job".. No?
Katie, sounds like your bucking for the Royal Phil. b4 long.. Good luck.. I wish these programs exhisted along with the grading system when I was in "The High School of Music & Art" .
Thank you all for your generous input. Since the original posting I have spent countless hours reviewing the work on my own and with my instructor. I also purchased several recordings of the piece (dvorak's 8th symphony) and played along with the bowings we had worked out until I had them mastered.
At the next rehearsal, I went in confident in my abilities and interpretation, and it was evident in my playing. I didn't force my opinion down the throats of my sectionmates, but occasionally I would suggest one of the methods I had worked on ahead of time. All of these were received warmly enough, though not necessarily applied.
Then it dawned on me....
The reason that the bass section was underdeveloped in the past wasn't due to a lack of leadership or skill necessarily, rather the other basses just didn't care about the music. It turns out that both of the section bassists are taking a class taught by the conductor and in exchange for their participation in the orchestra, they have been exempted from writing the final essay in his class.
Despite the rather disillusioning behavior of these two, I can proudly say that I have added a competent rendition of Dvorak's 8th to my repetoire. Plus I recieved many compliments from other musicians in the orchestra on the contribution my individual sound made to the group.
So my lesson has been learned: do the best work in every situation, don't be a jerk, and if you happen to have the most effective and intuitive interpretation, those willing will follow.
Also don't expect much of anything from sycophants and despots.
Next question, do the actions of the other bassists constitute nepotism or bribery?
Aaron
At the next rehearsal, I went in confident in my abilities and interpretation, and it was evident in my playing. I didn't force my opinion down the throats of my sectionmates, but occasionally I would suggest one of the methods I had worked on ahead of time. All of these were received warmly enough, though not necessarily applied.
Then it dawned on me....
The reason that the bass section was underdeveloped in the past wasn't due to a lack of leadership or skill necessarily, rather the other basses just didn't care about the music. It turns out that both of the section bassists are taking a class taught by the conductor and in exchange for their participation in the orchestra, they have been exempted from writing the final essay in his class.
Despite the rather disillusioning behavior of these two, I can proudly say that I have added a competent rendition of Dvorak's 8th to my repetoire. Plus I recieved many compliments from other musicians in the orchestra on the contribution my individual sound made to the group.
So my lesson has been learned: do the best work in every situation, don't be a jerk, and if you happen to have the most effective and intuitive interpretation, those willing will follow.
Also don't expect much of anything from sycophants and despots.
Next question, do the actions of the other bassists constitute nepotism or bribery?
Aaron
- Mar 1, 2002
- 4,237
- 52
- 75
- Disclosures
- Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
The community orchestra I'm now playing in has had difficulties keeping stable principles bass, 'cello, and less so viola.
I've seen exactly what Ken Smith has described by good (and not so good) players. It's the conductors call how dynamics, often bowings and tone should be, although the section princples suggest their opinions. Usually "cellist, sometimes opinion of bass principles are considered.
Sounds like you may have orphans in the bass section.
(Never had a mother to teach manners or sense.)
I play in JCC Symphony Orchestra of the
The Jewish Community Center of Greater Washington
Link Removed
About half struggling amateurs, a third pros who have retired or got out of music and this is to keep active, and a six working pros.
Bass section: Three pros, three struggling amateurs, of which I'm one. Any of these three could be principle.
It has been a lot of fun. Thankfully I needn't make a living there.
I've seen exactly what Ken Smith has described by good (and not so good) players. It's the conductors call how dynamics, often bowings and tone should be, although the section princples suggest their opinions. Usually "cellist, sometimes opinion of bass principles are considered.
Sounds like you may have orphans in the bass section.
(Never had a mother to teach manners or sense.)
I play in JCC Symphony Orchestra of the
The Jewish Community Center of Greater Washington
Link Removed
About half struggling amateurs, a third pros who have retired or got out of music and this is to keep active, and a six working pros.
Bass section: Three pros, three struggling amateurs, of which I'm one. Any of these three could be principle.
It has been a lot of fun. Thankfully I needn't make a living there.
I don't recall the last time that I had to laugh so hard and so quietly (so as to not awake room mates) in a long time....MKoby said:
