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the misleading P/J concept (Wilbur Bascomb)...

pretty much, could be more to it. all kinds of subjective ideas what it would be.
Most tone comes from the player and hands.
its mainly technique to get the tone.

what Wilbur Bascomb has used over the years could run you around on a wild goose chase. maybe p maybe j maybe custom, passive ,active blah blah. Over a course of 5 or 10 or 20 years he could have used all kinds of basses. But you would have to guess he learned on a straight forward Jazz or P and at anytime could probably pick up just about any bass and sound like Wilbur Bascomb


You can get Wilbur Bascomb's tone with a P bass or a Jazz bass,
heck you could get it out of a cheapo starter bass.
But if you could play bass like Bascomb technique wise. actually playing through exactly what equipment he used. Would just make it more "authentic", otherwise unnecessary really to get "that tone"

Really it just sounds to me like a passive Fender Bass plugged straight into a amp. Alot of the tone on the hair recording
has alot to do with the plucking fingers and your playing position being closer to the neck or closer to the bridge.
And a combination of very firm consistent plucks, but still be able to control the string with muting or not muting. Your muting or plucking technique can vary depending on the tension
of the strings which is lose towards the neck and gets tighter towards the bridge. So you find a sweet spot where you can give a firm attack but not get sloppy notes. And use the extra tension towards the bridge to give a muted sound without having to use your fingers to control it. Or if you want to change the tone by playing towards the neck you have to apply a different technique if you want to keep that controlled muted sound or really let them ring since there is less tension.

Basic stuff, and as always I cant make a quick point, but tone is really in the hands. Forget about notes for awhile. Just work on getting consistent notes with the same attack. fast attack slow attack firm attack loose attack. I dont know how to describe it, sounds so basic. But just work on one level of attack and keep playing the same scale over and over again. then vary the attack and then vary the position towards the neck or bridge. Probably more than 20 different tones you can get by just how you vary position and attack. Really just work on your "tone" hand playing the same boring scale over and over again. Also players dont really use their thumbs to pluck notes, using the thumb changes the angle of the pluck side to side instead of straight down. Even if you dont use your thumb you can still vary the plucking angle with your fingers to get smoother notes, but still apply alot of force if needed for heavy attack and not get annoying fret clanking. Anybody who falls in love with flatwounds, could love rounds just as much, again if they learned better technique, instead of just wacking straight down on the strings to get a heavy attack and getting alot of extra noise round wounds can give with poor technique.

It seems a lot of guitar players never work on variable and consistent pick techniques and cover it up with distortion and delay . And bass players never work on variable and consistent plucking/picking technique and cover it up with a compressor
to get consistency.

++1. A lot of wisdom in this post. Soft thumbing on rounds is particularly worth investigation...I need to do more of that, as it is a fat, fat sound!

Bascomb sounds GREAT on the "Hair" movie, although I thought the film was Forman's worst, and I did not dig the slap/pop on iconic late 60's tunes, even though the taste and execution were excellent.

Good luck trying to duplicate Bascomb's signal chain for a major film recording project like that...better to focus on technique. Although I'd agree with the observation that P/J, with some kind of preamp, could well have been the underlying bass, and I'm a big P/J fan.

If your range is around $1k, get the best used P (Fender, Lakland, etc.) you can for around $800k, and invest in a Nordstrand P/J set. Go active later, if you find yourself slapping and popping a fair amount.
 
I'm going to guess he used flats, but it's hard to tell. John Paul Jones used roundwounds with Zeppelin and I would have sworn he used flats. You can get a sound like that with either, depending on your other gear and how you play.

This was previously posted, but to me it's the classic Bascomb recording:


You can still hear that midrange bite, but it sounds more clearly like a Pbass with flats, played with a strong assertive touch.

And... Damn, Jeff Beck sure can play!
 
no but I mean what do you guys think he used? I had a p with chromes and I was completely unable to slap...

Round Wounds and just speculation most likely Rotosound's. swing bass 66 which they make a nickel version of now too.
popular brand of the time, some small music stores...the only brand at the time.

fresh new strings little bright roto are steel, they get that magic after a month or 6... LOL.
but they dim down good after a week or 2
 
The reason I prefer a P/J to a straight P? I love the P pickup, but by itself on a P-bass it has a tendency to produce an unpleasant mid-range splat when you really dig in. On a P/J, I can smash it as hard as want to without that happening if there's some of the bridge pickup dialed in. I don't know why it works that way, but it does.

I used to mod my jazz basses by adding a P pickup back in the '70s...but for the past 20 years I've just used MIJ jazz specials.
 
Seems legit. Practicing with a compressor / distortion is cheating in my book. Rehearse with the effects, but learn basic playing clean.

Well, things are very different with distortion and sustain. I mean, it's a whole different voice, so you need to build your lines using your voice. Like Chuck Berry's stuff is real choppy and percussive; Hendrix' is lyrical. Each had to practice their lines using their own voices.
 
The funk/fusion clips have some chorus/flange, perhaps even a little envelope filtering/following of some sort on one of the tracks...it's neither dry or clean.

The blues cuts that were posted are overdriven...they're not all that "dirty" per say, and they're still stiff, but there's definitely a lot of overdrive going on.
 
That was around 1977, Marcus didn't even have a preamp yet. I always thought it was Wilbur playing a P and just really digging in. Wilbur is definitely one of the overlooked bad-asses!:bassist:
 
The cleanest recorded example of his tone that I found on Spotify is the Idris Muhammad, House of the Rising Sun album. Try the Hey Pocky-A-way intro. It sounds like flats to me, and some some overdubbed pops either with rounds or through an effect of some sort. Anybody any other ideas?
 
The cleanest recorded example of his tone that I found on Spotify is the Idris Muhammad, House of the Rising Sun album. Try the Hey Pocky-A-way intro. It sounds like flats to me, and some some overdubbed pops either with rounds or through an effect of some sort. Anybody any other ideas?

I'm pretty sure those aren't overdubbed pops...the concept sounds very weird.
I had a p-bass with chromes which was IMPOSSIBLE to slap, but hey maybe there are flats out there that can be slapped, I'd love to know!
 
The reason I prefer a P/J to a straight P? I love the P pickup, but by itself on a P-bass it has a tendency to produce an unpleasant mid-range splat when you really dig in. On a P/J, I can smash it as hard as want to without that happening if there's some of the bridge pickup dialed in. I don't know why it works that way, but it does.

I used to mod my jazz basses by adding a P pickup back in the '70s...but for the past 20 years I've just used MIJ jazz specials.

I think that's because the pickups blended cuts the mids a lot - the P alone has a 'bump' in the low mids - when you add the J this is subdued a bit...

That's my guess, based on this cool article... http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/BGM61 Dec2010.pdf

Alex Claber seems pretty knowledgeable... ;)
 
williamk said:
I'm pretty sure those aren't overdubbed pops...the concept sounds very weird.
I had a p-bass with chromes which was IMPOSSIBLE to slap, but hey maybe there are flats out there that can be slapped, I'd love to know!

Well, Larry Graham used flats on the early Sly & The Family Stone recordings. I think he said they were GHS based on fuzzy recollection of an interview in Guitar Player back before there were any bass rags.

John
 
williamk said:
I'm pretty sure those aren't overdubbed pops...the concept sounds very weird.
I had a p-bass with chromes which was IMPOSSIBLE to slap, but hey maybe there are flats out there that can be slapped, I'd love to know!

I still slap with Chromes and Fender flats... it sounds different, but it's totally possible and a great sound.
 
I'm a relatively new bass player but a longtime radio audio guy. I find it frustrating to hear a recorded bass sound that I like yet be unable to get that sound with my gear. But I always go back to the wise words of a longtime, 'old timer', guitar player friend of mine who always reminds me that guitars are recorded under ideal conditions. They fiddle for days just to the the sound just right then fiddle for days mixing etc. So I try to get it sounding the best I can then focus on my playing. Worrying about gear and settings too much just distracts me from getting better (and it is, admittedly a very EASY distraction to get sucked into). If I ever get good enough to make it to a recording studio then maybe 'my' sound can get immortalized too...