- Mar 22, 2000
- 1,972
- 73
- Disclosures
- Big Cheese Emeritus: Gollihur Music (retired)
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Double Bass the new AI Ten2
- Thread starter jweiss
- Start date
The speaker you want is the Ten2EX, which is the 2 X 10 speaker cabinet with no amplifier. I'm driving mine with a Series III Focus or a Clarus SL amp, and it sounds wonderful. I'm sure it will be fine with your "regular" Clarus amplifier.
Erik Hansen
Erik Hansen
Thank you, Bob - and thank you for a great set of web pages about AI gear - your site is my standard AI reference besides the manufacturer's own.
Is this option listed on your web pages? I didn't find it - would be great to know how much more it costs, how much taller and heavier it makes the cabinet, etc.
It would be _great_ if the factory could retro-fit my Clarus 2R Series III to the cabinet you've described - would be my ideal solution.
-S-
- Mar 22, 2000
- 1,972
- 73
- Disclosures
- Big Cheese Emeritus: Gollihur Music (retired)
We'll have to add it. It is on the Acoustic Image price list: The Cabrio-ready Ten2 EX cabinet's List is $799, selling price is $739.
Owners of Series III heads can contact Acoustic Image directly for a conversion quote. There are two flavors of heads within the II series, so pricing to have a head converted can vary.
Hope this helps.
Rick Jones replied to me about my question of using the Clarus SL with the Ten2 EX. He said:
I think the SL will be fine powering the Ten2 EX. The higher efficiency of the Ten2 helps, plus the SL has excellent transient power which will keep the transients from clipping. Check out this paper that I wrote, it explains how the extra speaker in the Ten2 EX more than makes up for the power of the SL:
http://www.acousticimg.com/manuals/The purpose of Power 8.pdf
I think the SL will be fine powering the Ten2 EX. The higher efficiency of the Ten2 helps, plus the SL has excellent transient power which will keep the transients from clipping. Check out this paper that I wrote, it explains how the extra speaker in the Ten2 EX more than makes up for the power of the SL:
http://www.acousticimg.com/manuals/The purpose of Power 8.pdf
Is anyone using the new Ten 2 Combo going mic only? It seems like it could be used as a powered speaker with benefits and thus doing jazz gigs might be perfectly fine with a mic only. My main concern is volume. Of course keeping a 1/4 inch cable around just in case...
If anyone can speak to this issue, it is greatly appreciated as I am getting ready to either close on the AI combo or the Doubler.
If anyone can speak to this issue, it is greatly appreciated as I am getting ready to either close on the AI combo or the Doubler.
I haven't had the chance to try out the Ten2, but I have used the Contra with a Mic and nothing else, and it sounded just great. Probably the easiest amps to use with a mic I have ever used. Makes me wonder why I ever got rid of that set up...
I used to use my focus this way too and had great success. Of course I had to plug in from time to time but most of the time it was easy to pull off and the line to the pa was all mic! The reason I stopped was the excess of cords and gear was killing me. My thinking is that with he added headroom of the ten2 plus it's a combo my setup break down process is much easier an quite honestly...that's a big deal. I'm lazy but want a good sound.
I would love someone using the ten2 combo to comment on level of gain before feedback with a mic only.
I would love someone using the ten2 combo to comment on level of gain before feedback with a mic only.
I would be interested in hearing this as well. Although a Ten2 is a bit out of my range at the moment, if I can get enough headroom I could probably justify selling off a lot of other gear... Definitely a very intriguing combo.
Roger,
I haven't been using a mic lately since I'm so happy with the sound I'm getting from my LaScala Hybrid using only a RevSoloII that I finally figure out how to fit properly. However, today I took a Shure Beta57, wrapped it in a towel and stuck under the tailpiece and plugged it into my Ten2--actually a Series III Focus plugged into a Ten2EX, but that is the same thing. I wasn't able to get the volume up too terribly loud although it might be plenty high enough for you in smaller groups. The volume I was able to get before feedback started was just about what I've been able to get from any amp that I've tried with a mic, including my ancient old Crown condensor mic wired with a BP100 and plugged into a Bass Blender, playing through a MB150E--my initial electronic setup that I used for a number of years. I love the sound of the Ten2 but I'm afraid you'll have to find a dealer or a player who has one and do your own experimenting.
Cheers. BTW, I still remember our standing on the sidewalk in Laguna Beach looking at the fit of a Wizzy10 into a Cajon case from Musician's Fiend.
Erik
I haven't been using a mic lately since I'm so happy with the sound I'm getting from my LaScala Hybrid using only a RevSoloII that I finally figure out how to fit properly. However, today I took a Shure Beta57, wrapped it in a towel and stuck under the tailpiece and plugged it into my Ten2--actually a Series III Focus plugged into a Ten2EX, but that is the same thing. I wasn't able to get the volume up too terribly loud although it might be plenty high enough for you in smaller groups. The volume I was able to get before feedback started was just about what I've been able to get from any amp that I've tried with a mic, including my ancient old Crown condensor mic wired with a BP100 and plugged into a Bass Blender, playing through a MB150E--my initial electronic setup that I used for a number of years. I love the sound of the Ten2 but I'm afraid you'll have to find a dealer or a player who has one and do your own experimenting.
Cheers. BTW, I still remember our standing on the sidewalk in Laguna Beach looking at the fit of a Wizzy10 into a Cajon case from Musician's Fiend.
Erik
Hey Erik,
I will probably have to try it out. My guess is that it would work very well most of the time and I could pack in a 1/4 inch cord for the times it wouldn't. It's a bit pricey though and I have never been a huge fan of the sound of AI heads. I've had two and after the last one I swore them off...till this combo popped up.
Packing a combo (instead of an AI head plus cables etc.) sounds like a much easier thing to deal with. I just cant bring myself to spend that bread and not have it work or not be happy if I have to plug in. I guess I could buy a pre amp but then why not buy a different amp all together and save some bread?
I do remember our Laguna experience. Glad to hear AI is working out for you. Let me know if you mess with it anymore and are able to get positive results.
I will probably have to try it out. My guess is that it would work very well most of the time and I could pack in a 1/4 inch cord for the times it wouldn't. It's a bit pricey though and I have never been a huge fan of the sound of AI heads. I've had two and after the last one I swore them off...till this combo popped up.
Packing a combo (instead of an AI head plus cables etc.) sounds like a much easier thing to deal with. I just cant bring myself to spend that bread and not have it work or not be happy if I have to plug in. I guess I could buy a pre amp but then why not buy a different amp all together and save some bread?
I do remember our Laguna experience. Glad to hear AI is working out for you. Let me know if you mess with it anymore and are able to get positive results.
I have looked at the pfd of the ten2 on Bob G's web site and cannot believe that this combo (like the other AI combo's) does not have a level control for the D.I. Maybe I'm blind and can't see were the the level control is?
I own a series 2 contra combo amp and the D.I. level is controlled by the master volume. The problem I constantly have is the D.I. level is way to hot with the master volume at about half way. Which makes it useless on gigs were i need to hook up to the p.a. system to carry the room and the signal is so hot it clips the input of the p.a. channel. I can pad the channel but even so the volume on the channel has to be so high i loose all headroom.
Now these are cheap p.a. heads i'm plugging into (peavey, Mackie, etc.) So maybe thats a problem, but that is usually what i have available to use. I play in a couple bluegrass bands and we usually provide our own p.a. This is playing at bars and restraunts were crowd noise is a factor and p.a. is nessasary to get over the crowd noise.
It became stupid for me to bring my contra amp to gigs because....one.....the amp can't carry the rooms by itself...and two... the di is too hot to use with the p.a. systems i'm using. Right now i'm using a fishman pro plat. straight into the p.a. and this works great.
Now to my point. Why did'nt they address this on the new ten2? Or for that matter the contra series 3? I really wanted to buy this combo because i do love the sound of the AI but the lack of d.i. control kept me from it. I ended up buying the EA doubler from bob instead (have not gotten it yet) because it has a trim pot for the d.i.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong? Do other folks have this problem with the d.i.'s on the acoustic image stuff? Sorry for the rant but i just got home from a gig i tried to use my contra amp at and could'nt. This cured my G.A.S. for the ten2 (which i was considering getting instead of the doubler) because even with the power of the ten2 i still would have needed to be in the p.a. and would'nt have been able to without clipping the input of the p.a.
I own a series 2 contra combo amp and the D.I. level is controlled by the master volume. The problem I constantly have is the D.I. level is way to hot with the master volume at about half way. Which makes it useless on gigs were i need to hook up to the p.a. system to carry the room and the signal is so hot it clips the input of the p.a. channel. I can pad the channel but even so the volume on the channel has to be so high i loose all headroom.
Now these are cheap p.a. heads i'm plugging into (peavey, Mackie, etc.) So maybe thats a problem, but that is usually what i have available to use. I play in a couple bluegrass bands and we usually provide our own p.a. This is playing at bars and restraunts were crowd noise is a factor and p.a. is nessasary to get over the crowd noise.
It became stupid for me to bring my contra amp to gigs because....one.....the amp can't carry the rooms by itself...and two... the di is too hot to use with the p.a. systems i'm using. Right now i'm using a fishman pro plat. straight into the p.a. and this works great.
Now to my point. Why did'nt they address this on the new ten2? Or for that matter the contra series 3? I really wanted to buy this combo because i do love the sound of the AI but the lack of d.i. control kept me from it. I ended up buying the EA doubler from bob instead (have not gotten it yet) because it has a trim pot for the d.i.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong? Do other folks have this problem with the d.i.'s on the acoustic image stuff? Sorry for the rant but i just got home from a gig i tried to use my contra amp at and could'nt. This cured my G.A.S. for the ten2 (which i was considering getting instead of the doubler) because even with the power of the ten2 i still would have needed to be in the p.a. and would'nt have been able to without clipping the input of the p.a.
My main amp is a Focus Series III 2R into a Ten2EX speaker--effectively the same amp as a new Ten2 combo. I have traveled all over the U.K. playing theatres with a Rat Pack show, with the amp functioning as my stage monitor as "insurance" against the sound crew being unable to provide me with adequate stage volume, and the Direct Out into the house PA. Based on others who have made similar comments to yours, I've generally warned the sound tech that the signal I'm giving them may be hot, but not once has the sound tech indicated that there was any problem. Most of the time I ask them directly after the sound check if it was a problem, and I have never been told that it was too hot.
I also co-lead a monday night big band in Edinburgh that has a fairly mediocre PA system with a poor quality Fender bass guitar amp in the back line. Most of the time I just plug into the Fender through either an FDeck preamp or (mostly) a Headway EDB-1 preamp. However, numerous times I've taken in my AI rig and gone straight into the old, dusty Mackie board through the DI--having to hop back and forth myself setting the levels--and again have had no trouble at all with the DI volume. When I was living in Los Angeles and leading a band, I owned a PA made up of a Mackie mixer and 3 Mackie powered speakers (one as a vocal monitor). Again, I routinely went into this PA with no problems.
It's unfortunate that you have had this problem. There IS a way to control the volume of the Direct Out. The Input Level control affects the strength of the signal going to the DI and the Master Level does not. I generally set the Input Level volume at around 10:00 and then adjust the Master Level to get the stage volume that I'm seeking. This seems to provide a Direct Out signal that can be handled without any problems by the PA.
Of course, YMMV but this has been working well for me. I continue to find the Ten2 speaker system to be the very best speaker that AI has produced, and I've basically owned at least one of every speaker they have ever made. The sound spreading out all over the stage from the bottom speaker while simultaneously being much more in your face from the front speaker is wonderful. The ability to reduce the proportion of the sound going to the bottom speaker through the Room Coupling Control to cut boominess on flimsy plywood stages (as well as the very effective and easy-to-use High Pass filter) has also allowed me to get the punchy, firm sound that I'm seeking. Finally, the ease of connecting a microphone for low volume gigs or plugging in a bass guitar in the second channel on doubling gigs has also been a big bonus when gigging. I hope your new Doubler will get you the sound that you're seeking.
Cheers,
Erik Hansen
Scotland
hi bass-dan, i have the same problem with my serieIII combo.
i will try to solve it with this cheap little device:
http://www.neutrik.li/ch/en/audio/slch_1854474991/Dämpfungsglied_productlist.aspx
it works like a -x db-pad.
i will try to solve it with this cheap little device:
http://www.neutrik.li/ch/en/audio/slch_1854474991/Dämpfungsglied_productlist.aspx
it works like a -x db-pad.
I guess i was wrong about the master controlling the d.i. Thanks for the clarification lownote. Even so, with the gain up not even halfway i still have the problem. It may not be a problem for most. I have used the d.i. with success when playing clubs with p.a. already in place and a soundman running sound. I am not lucky enough to just give my signal to a soundman and let him deal with it. Most the time I'm dealing with my own sound.
I can make it work but it requires me to use my fishman to send a signal from the xlr out to the p.a and use the 1/4 out to run to my amp. This sucks because it causes me to carry and set up more gear and that kinda defeats the purpose of owning these great lightweight amps.
It seems to me it would have been somthing they could have included on the newest AI combo without much hassle. I probably am in the minority with this problem as i have not seen alot of bitch'in about it and the guys at AI know what there doing so they probably did'nt see a reason to have a separate level control for the d.i.
This would have been the perfect combo for my needs if the d.i. was not so hot or could be controlled better. It sucks because I really wanted to buy this combo and "be done". The adaptor mentioned by 16fuss could be a solution but the AI is too expensive to chance that it would work.
I can make it work but it requires me to use my fishman to send a signal from the xlr out to the p.a and use the 1/4 out to run to my amp. This sucks because it causes me to carry and set up more gear and that kinda defeats the purpose of owning these great lightweight amps.
It seems to me it would have been somthing they could have included on the newest AI combo without much hassle. I probably am in the minority with this problem as i have not seen alot of bitch'in about it and the guys at AI know what there doing so they probably did'nt see a reason to have a separate level control for the d.i.
This would have been the perfect combo for my needs if the d.i. was not so hot or could be controlled better. It sucks because I really wanted to buy this combo and "be done". The adaptor mentioned by 16fuss could be a solution but the AI is too expensive to chance that it would work.
Several companies make this kind of adapter, including ProCo, Hosa and Shure. With pad levels up to -30 or -40 dB, it will certainly work to manage the level on any DI that has a non-adjustable DI with a hot signal. I used to carry one by ProCo for my SWR SM-400 and it did the job fine those few times I needed it.
I have used the Focus for years and this is what I have always done. The one club I played regularly (now closed by the economy) had the "hot DI" issue with the Focus for about 10 minutes until I started doing this after reading the manual and talking to the soundman. I ended up setting the input volume at about 9 o'clock and adjusting the master for the rest. One added benefit of this method was that the sound of the pickup is more natural and relaxed with the pre set low like that. YMMV.
Bass dan,
I have found that I didn't love the di on the focus. Never had hot issues but wasn't super happy with the thin sounding di signal. Didn't find it much better on the doubler and I've done a lot of testing on my protools system with it. On the rare occassion that I need pa support I use my amt mic and send that direct to the foh instead of the di from my head. More often then not I use this same set up when Recording the weekly jazz jams I do at the house.
I never had much luck mixing in the amt into my amp with either the focus or doubler but for dedicated foh sound I really enjoy the mic.
I have found that I didn't love the di on the focus. Never had hot issues but wasn't super happy with the thin sounding di signal. Didn't find it much better on the doubler and I've done a lot of testing on my protools system with it. On the rare occassion that I need pa support I use my amt mic and send that direct to the foh instead of the di from my head. More often then not I use this same set up when Recording the weekly jazz jams I do at the house.
I never had much luck mixing in the amt into my amp with either the focus or doubler but for dedicated foh sound I really enjoy the mic.
Maybe somthing is wrong with the d.i. on my contra? Last night when i was messin withit i tried many combinations to get it not to clip the input. At one point i know i had the gain set at about 9 o'clock and it still clipped the the input on the p.a. Last night the p.a. head of choice (not my choice) was a beringer head. This was the first time i tried going into that head so maybe it was that.
I guess what bothers me is that if you have to have the gain so low that it does'nt clip you are basically getting no usable volume from the amp. Which to me is like carrying around a 30 pound preamp. This is why i went with the fishman pro plat. I guess in the right situation were you can almost do the gig acoustic the volume from the amp is just enough to give you that extra umph you may need. I find that the combo is great when playing with acoustic musicians that are actually playing acousticlly and the bass needs just a little more to have some presence.
Maybe this is what the intended purpose of this amp is and the ten2 probably can be used in more situations without using the d.i. It just drives me nuts to have to use a padded adaptor to be able to use the d.i. Just like it drives me nuts to put a pedal in front of a amp to get a good tone on electric bass.
This is all of coarse my experience with the AI stuff and obviously it is not a issue for most folks. I just think if i'm going to spend $1500 on a amp i dont want to have to modify it with a adaptor to make it work for me. This could be the p.a. heads i'm plugging into and not the amps d.i. So much about the ten2 appeals to me, the power, the 2 channels, the AI sound, the light weight, the increased volume with the new cab design, the posibility of it being the last amp i'll need, but the d.i. thing is a deal breaker for me at this point.
This could all change as i'm well known to love gear for awhile then not so much and vice versa.
I guess what bothers me is that if you have to have the gain so low that it does'nt clip you are basically getting no usable volume from the amp. Which to me is like carrying around a 30 pound preamp. This is why i went with the fishman pro plat. I guess in the right situation were you can almost do the gig acoustic the volume from the amp is just enough to give you that extra umph you may need. I find that the combo is great when playing with acoustic musicians that are actually playing acousticlly and the bass needs just a little more to have some presence.
Maybe this is what the intended purpose of this amp is and the ten2 probably can be used in more situations without using the d.i. It just drives me nuts to have to use a padded adaptor to be able to use the d.i. Just like it drives me nuts to put a pedal in front of a amp to get a good tone on electric bass.
This is all of coarse my experience with the AI stuff and obviously it is not a issue for most folks. I just think if i'm going to spend $1500 on a amp i dont want to have to modify it with a adaptor to make it work for me. This could be the p.a. heads i'm plugging into and not the amps d.i. So much about the ten2 appeals to me, the power, the 2 channels, the AI sound, the light weight, the increased volume with the new cab design, the posibility of it being the last amp i'll need, but the d.i. thing is a deal breaker for me at this point.
This could all change as i'm well known to love gear for awhile then not so much and vice versa.
Have you touched base with AI about this issue (I read the thread, but don't recall if you said you did or not). If there is something actually wrong with your amp I'm sure that they'll take care of it. And from what I've heard they have been pretty receptive to user feedback, so if this is an issue that many users are having it's something they may look improving for a future revision.
Have you sent the DI to a higher quality mixing board? Most inexpensive boards and box mixers do not have an input pad/attenuator, which is probably why you're having an issue. An inline attenuator like the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] or one of the other models previously mentioned in this thread would probably resolve your issue, and at minimal cost and almost zero inconvenience.
I would think the DI should be putting out the same sound that going into the input. AI prides themselves on "natural sound", I'm sure that if anyone is getting less than stellar audio from the DI - from what you're describing it sounds unusable - then AI would want to know about it.
