If the above two responses are correct then there is no "secret to great tone" because there is no tone built into the head which is pretty much what I'm getting at, for me if the amp is flat and imparts no tone then there is no secret.
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Double Bass the new AI Ten2
- Thread starter jweiss
- Start date
I'm not so sure. I know it's their marketing, and I really believe that of the amplifiers- in fact, I measured the contra amp head once and yes, it IS dead flat accurate.
BUT: My ears tell me, and other people's ears seem to do the same, that the cabinets they use for their combos (I can't yet speak of the new Ten2 thing, I'm giving it a try today) don't live up to the marketing. The clean and flat amp signal comes out of the speakers with a pretty dominant midrange boost, and I ALWAYS (with different basses and different pickups- though the effect differs from kind to kind, some being more honky than others) cut out the mids at least 3/4 to make it less honky. I only did the measuring because I wanted to find out the cause of the honk.
The effect is softened when I use an extension cab with my contra IIa, but it's still there.
As I said, I'm giving the Ten2 EX a try today, and I'll report on the findings.
So,
after a couple of rather quick and dirty tests (without band yet) here's my take. The cabinet is the same speaker config as in the combo, so I think it's reasonable to put it in this thread.
The midrange honk i experienced with my combo (ask Chris Fitzgerald about his impression on AI combos) is MUCH less obvious with this cabinet. Finally, an AI cabinet I can use with my combo almost without equalisation. However, it's still little middy when used as the only cabinet, if I configure the rig as 3x10 inch, it's nice and honk-free. So I'm basically of the same opinion than the others here in this thread: great great cabinet.
BUT: Do I want to schlep my contra combo AND the Ten2 EX, when the same amount of warm clean boom can come from one rig? I'm not sure.
I can only guess, but I assume it's the cabinets not being ported but closed, thus being a little weaker on the lowend side of things, so the midrange sounds like it's boosted. On the ported 1x8 inch ARCO Hugo I tried, the one 8inch alone sounds fatter than the two 10 inch drivers in the Ten2 EX. The effect reduces with growing membrane area.
Sidecar
after a couple of rather quick and dirty tests (without band yet) here's my take. The cabinet is the same speaker config as in the combo, so I think it's reasonable to put it in this thread.
The midrange honk i experienced with my combo (ask Chris Fitzgerald about his impression on AI combos) is MUCH less obvious with this cabinet. Finally, an AI cabinet I can use with my combo almost without equalisation. However, it's still little middy when used as the only cabinet, if I configure the rig as 3x10 inch, it's nice and honk-free. So I'm basically of the same opinion than the others here in this thread: great great cabinet.
BUT: Do I want to schlep my contra combo AND the Ten2 EX, when the same amount of warm clean boom can come from one rig? I'm not sure.
I can only guess, but I assume it's the cabinets not being ported but closed, thus being a little weaker on the lowend side of things, so the midrange sounds like it's boosted. On the ported 1x8 inch ARCO Hugo I tried, the one 8inch alone sounds fatter than the two 10 inch drivers in the Ten2 EX. The effect reduces with growing membrane area.
Sidecar
I could be way off, but it's been my experience with the AI combos (the SIII Contra and now the Ten2) that they are actually putting out much more low end than what is perceived from the stage.
A while ago I had a friend sit in on a gig for a song. He played my bass through my rig and I was amazed at how much louder and full the bass was in the audience compared to what I was hearing on stage. It was borderline too much. I've found that is the trade-off with using AI combos. They are NOT the best stage monitors, but as far as putting an amazing sound out into a room, I don't think they can be topped (IMO).
I can't say I've ever heard any "honk" in my AI combos, but I'm guessing this is more likely due to the pickup/bass than the actual speaker design?
A while ago I had a friend sit in on a gig for a song. He played my bass through my rig and I was amazed at how much louder and full the bass was in the audience compared to what I was hearing on stage. It was borderline too much. I've found that is the trade-off with using AI combos. They are NOT the best stage monitors, but as far as putting an amazing sound out into a room, I don't think they can be topped (IMO).
I can't say I've ever heard any "honk" in my AI combos, but I'm guessing this is more likely due to the pickup/bass than the actual speaker design?
Pat, did you ever play your SIII Contra with a Contra X or with the Ten2X? I've always been impressed by the fat, deep sound @ 2 Ohms into one extension cab from my Coda SII. Even on stage. And it's not dependent on which bass or mic/pu i use. But then often, without an extension cab, the sound is different, less deep and fat. I dunno why that is, exactly, either. Maybe it's the 2 Ohms with the ex.
- Jul 28, 2009
- 387
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- Disclosures
- Is not compensated for endorsements. Does not sell for profit.
Interesting observation Pat. I've found a different experience for me. The down-firing 10" put more low frequencies on stage vs more traditional speakers that face outwards.
However, for many the basses it still holds true that the lower frequencies develop further out from the instrument. Could it be the bass itself that was producing more lows further out?
I don't believe so. I have my bass setup so that the string height is fairly low. I can pull a nice acoustic sound, but I really have tailored my setup to work in conjunction with an amp. I've found that having the strings too high feed too many boomy lows into the amp and it physically feels harder to play the instrument at that point.
I think a lot depends on the rooms that you're playing in as well for how the AI sounds on stage. I bring a square plank that I've painted with a very high gloss black finish to act as a "virtual stage" (or something like that) so there isn't such a drastic difference in perceived sound when playing on carpet or wood floors, etc.
I ran my SIII Contra on top of an SWR Goliath 4x10 before. Obviously, there was no problem being heard in that situation. The Ten2 does have more of a low end presence than the 1x10 configurations. When the money rolls in, I'm considering buying a Ten2EX for the louder gigs.
- Jul 28, 2009
- 387
- 314
- Disclosures
- Is not compensated for endorsements. Does not sell for profit.
The plank idea is a very good one. I might give that a try.
I'm sure there's quite a few variables that makes your experience with the AI different than mine. I have used long cords and played the bass off stage just to hear how the amp sounds. It sounded much more consistent with on stage sound than conventional speaker configurations for me.
I just put in an order for the Ten2 Ex to add to the Coda+ through Django Books and I'll let you guys know how that turns out for me.
Have any Ten2 owners here tried this rig with instruments other than DB or EB?
AI amps are reputed to be good for use with jazz guitar. I'm wondering if that holds true for the Ten2 as well--especially re chord articulation in the lower mids.
Thank you.
Gary
AI amps are reputed to be good for use with jazz guitar. I'm wondering if that holds true for the Ten2 as well--especially re chord articulation in the lower mids.
Thank you.
Gary
There is a link on the Acoustic Image web site to the wonderful guitarist, John Stowell, playing through a Ten2 and he sounds great. I wish his bassist was also playing through one. Here is the link. These amps sound good with any kind of acoustic instrument. A Gypsy-style jazz violinist here in Scotland has just upgraded his rig from an older AI amp + speaker to a Ten2 as well.
Erik Hansen
Scotland
I tested my series III contra against Markbass mini CMD 121-combo. With Markbass I got a midrange honk with unnatural papery highs with powerful finger noise. It was more efficient than Contra but sounded like a bass guitar amp to me.
Compared to that my Contra sounded beautifully flat and natural. I still cut some mids with it and boost the highs a bit.
I´ve purchased my new AI ten2 three months ago from Gollihur and hopefully I´ll get it next week... I will report on that later.
^Thanks for the link Erik!
WOW!
A five year owner transferable warrantied, 28 lb., 800 Watt RMS, near-ruler-flat down to 40Hz, multiple input, effects equipped rig that can run on international voltage, and which sounds good with everything from DB to violin?!I've gotta plug my 'VI into one of these benchmarks!
Getting one here in TO won't be cheap, but when its price is divided by its public transit-able versatility...
After a gig last night with an Americana/newgrass band I've got to sing the praises of the amp some more. I was playing a 5-string slab in a group with two guitars, drums, and keys, and there was plenty of bass on stage. There was still plenty of headroom on the amp, and we weren't playing at quiet jazz levels, either. All of my low C's and D's were clear and articulate without any signs of fatigue from the amp or speakers.
I have a Contra-EX and a Clarus 2R Series III, basically a third-generation (one behind the Ten2's generation) Contra.
Anyone _miss_ anything in the sound now that the midrange is essentially replaced by a second woofer? Obviously not, based on the comments, but I had to ask. I'm considering replacing my current rig with a Ten2.
Thanks much.
-S-
Anyone _miss_ anything in the sound now that the midrange is essentially replaced by a second woofer? Obviously not, based on the comments, but I had to ask. I'm considering replacing my current rig with a Ten2.
Thanks much.
-S-
Steve,
The sound *is* different with the Ten2 and it's taken me a while to get used to it, but I don't miss the sound of the SIII Contra at all. I think the Ten2 does a better job of being a stage monitor and an amplifier. In my experience with the SIII Contra, I had to sort of trust that the sound was bigger out in the house. With the Ten2, what I hear on stage is very much like what the sound in the house is.
The sound *is* different with the Ten2 and it's taken me a while to get used to it, but I don't miss the sound of the SIII Contra at all. I think the Ten2 does a better job of being a stage monitor and an amplifier. In my experience with the SIII Contra, I had to sort of trust that the sound was bigger out in the house. With the Ten2, what I hear on stage is very much like what the sound in the house is.
I am thinking of getting a Ten2 EX. Everything about it sounds appealing. I'm currently using a Wizzy 10 and like most people I'm loving the weight and carry-convenience but not exactly loving the sound. I would love to have more punch and warmth but don't necessarily need more volume. I'm currently using a trusty old Clarus SL which only puts out 250 W into 4 ohms. Works fine with the Wizzy 10 but just not sure it will be enough in this case since the sensitivity of the AI cab seems to be a lot lower.
Wattage isn't linear - 400 watts isn't all that much more than 250. I'd try what you've got and see how you like it before springing for a new amp.
Which reminds me of a question I wanted to ask - does anyone know if you can order the Ten2 _without_ a head? I'm giving that consideration, since I've got a Clarus 2R Series III and a Contra-EX now - would certainly be the least expensive solution for me, and I'd love the ability to upgrade my head at a later time. As I see the pictures on AI's web site, the Ten2-EX doesn't have room for a head - it's just a speaker cabinet.
-S-
Which reminds me of a question I wanted to ask - does anyone know if you can order the Ten2 _without_ a head? I'm giving that consideration, since I've got a Clarus 2R Series III and a Contra-EX now - would certainly be the least expensive solution for me, and I'd love the ability to upgrade my head at a later time. As I see the pictures on AI's web site, the Ten2-EX doesn't have room for a head - it's just a speaker cabinet.
-S-
