The new Doug Wimbish Spector

[FugaziBomb]

Adjusted for inflation, the original prices for the Fender Precision and Jazz were close to $3k in current dollars.

That was then, this is now. That inflation calculator thing really breaks brains. You have to take into account the instrument market on a whole now vs then. There was no playable $400 equivalent. There is now.

The NS-2 had a list price of $2000 in 1984. That is equivalent to about $6000 in current dollars.

Is it? I'm starting to call into question the validity of inflation calculation based on the current economic health. Sure it works in broad strokes, but when the buying power of your average US citizen is so low, the deviation from the inflation calculator has to be considered. It's like how BMI work for most people, but it starts to get off kilter when you've got a guy who is 260lbs of muscle

$6k isn’t insane. It has effectively 40 years of precedent.

It is for most Americans, and it definitely is when you take into account the sum of the parts going into it as well as the fact there are other offerings in the market that are 12x cheaper

The only difference is that now you can get better quality in a lower priced instrument than you used to.

I agree with you there. Have you picked up a $400 Ibanez lately?

Seriously, buy what you want, spend what you want - but for me, $6k is an awful lot money to drop on a wooden instrument with 100+ year old tech wired into it.

A person could buy TEN 75" televisions for the price of that one bass guitar. Just saying. Do you, though.

 

[BargeOn]

What does the artist get out of this? Does he get more money if the bass costs more, or just more glory? Anyone know how these deals are made?

 

[g-dude]

That was then, this is now. That inflation calculator thing really breaks brains. You have to take into account the instrument market on a whole now vs then. There was no playable $400 equivalent. There is now.



Is it? I'm starting to call into question the validity of inflation calculation based on the current economic health. Sure it works in broad strokes, but when the buying power of your average US citizen is so low, the deviation from the inflation calculator has to be considered. It's like how BMI work for most people, but it starts to get off kilter when you've got a guy who is 260lbs of muscle



It is for most Americans, and it definitely is when you take into account the sum of the parts going into it as well as the fact there are other offerings in the market that are 12x cheaper



I agree with you there. Have you picked up a $400 Ibanez lately?

Seriously, buy what you want, spend what you want - but for me, $6k is an awful lot money to drop on a wooden instrument with 100+ year old tech wired into it.

A person could buy TEN 75" televisions for the price of that one bass guitar. Just saying. Do you, though.

Inflation calculations track really well for high end things.

For example, a Porsche 911 is stupidly expensive now, but is actually about the same price as it was in 1984 when adjusted for inflation.

Other things have gotten cheaper where technology is concerned - take computers for example. There, technology has allow people to do more with less cost.

And some things have gotten more expensive. For example, the Hyundai Excel was $4995 in the mid-80s when it debuted. You can’t really find a new car for that price today, but at the same time the cheapest new cars out there have features that were only available on high end luxury cars.

When it comes to instruments made in the USA, labor costs and fixed costs play a big role - especially when you are producing modest volumes. Meanwhile, overseas labor is cheaper and when you crank out as many instruments as you possibly can, you can spread out your fixed costs, you get economies of scale, etc.

Don’t think of a $6k bass as expensive. Think of everything else as having gotten either cheaper or more filled with features…and at the same time, there is more stuff to waste money on.

The median home price in the USA was $80k in 1984 - the equivalent of 20 Spector NS-2 basses.

The median home price in 2024 is currently around $400k - or the equivalent of 66.67x the cost of the bass in question.

Ultimately, I have an Ibanez MiKro, and I have a Spector Euro 4LT. The fit and finish on the Spector is in a whole other universe compared to the Ibanez. Heck, I’ve never found a playable Ibanez that didn’t have an issue in a brick and mortar store.

But my Spector and my 31 year old Alembic are different beasts as well.

My Alembic has battle scars, but I picked it up for what the Spector Euro 4LT costs new…and the Alembic feels special in a way that the Spector can’t hold a candle to.

If I had $6k to spare, that would get me pretty nice used Alembic…that’s where’d my money would go, and where I’d probably see the best value retention.

 

[FugaziBomb]

Inflation calculations track really well for high end things.

For example, a Porsche 911 is stupidly expensive now, but is actually about the same price as it was in 1984 when adjusted for inflation.

Other things have gotten cheaper where technology is concerned - take computers for example. There, technology has allow people to do more with less cost.

And some things have gotten more expensive. For example, the Hyundai Excel was $4995 in the mid-80s when it debuted. You can’t really find a new car for that price today, but at the same time the cheapest new cars out there have features that were only available on high end luxury cars.

When it comes to instruments made in the USA, labor costs and fixed costs play a big role - especially when you are producing modest volumes. Meanwhile, overseas labor is cheaper and when you crank out as many instruments as you possibly can, you can spread out your fixed costs, you get economies of scale, etc.

Don’t think of a $6k bass as expensive. Think of everything else as having gotten either cheaper or more filled with features…and at the same time, there is more stuff to waste money on.

The median home price in the USA was $80k in 1984 - the equivalent of 20 Spector NS-2 basses.

The median home price in 2024 is currently around $400k - or the equivalent of 66.67x the cost of the bass in question.

Ultimately, I have an Ibanez MiKro, and I have a Spector Euro 4LT. The fit and finish on the Spector is in a whole other universe compared to the Ibanez. Heck, I’ve never found a playable Ibanez that didn’t have an issue in a brick and mortar store.

But my Spector and my 31 year old Alembic are different beasts as well.

My Alembic has battle scars, but I picked it up for what the Spector Euro 4LT costs new…and the Alembic feels special in a way that the Spector can’t hold a candle to.

If I had $6k to spare, that would get me pretty nice used Alembic…that’s where’d my money would go, and where I’d probably see the best value retention.

For a person who earns $50k a year, which is roughly $44k after taxes, a $6k bass represents a little less than two months income. To me, that's crazy for the product you're getting in reference to what is available in the consumer market on a whole. If you like it and you think it's worth it to you, buy it. Hell, buy two of you really want to throw cash around. To me, it's a ludicrous amount to spend on what most people consider a hobby. Do you, though.

 

[Relayer71]

What does the artist get out of this? Does he get more money if the bass costs more, or just more glory? Anyone know how these deals are made?

This is the going price for a U.S. custom shop Spector. This signature edition isn't more.

This is around the same price as a Fodera Monarch, Sadowsky Verdine White signature bass, and a lot less than any Alembic.

You can find some new US Spector builds for a little less but these have matte finishes and/or don't have Spector's traditional HAZ preamp or maple bodies.

As mentioned upthread, these DW basses come in different colors including that of Doug's original bass and are supposedly copied directly (neck dimensions, custom EMGs, and the 5 has what was a prototype headstock shape not on current builds): Doug Wimbish USA Signature Series - Spector Bass

 

[Relayer71]

I get that some custom shop basses are ridiculously expensive.

I've owned 3 U.S. Spectors and they were "entry level" (the Forte model) . That was more out of those having specs I preferred like matte finishes, black hardware, solid Swamp Ash bodies, but it was also because as pricey as those were, they were still closer to "reasonable".

Spector obviously wasn't making much on those the last few years because they discontinued the model which was last at $4000 (they were around $2600 when they came out in 2009 or 2010!). And if you order a bass with the same exact specs today, it will be closer to $6000.

Sadowsky had a similar lower cost US shop model a few years back: the Satin series. I think that went for around $3000. It also had a matte finish, limited colors, basic pre) and I guess they didn't find it worthwhile either as they discontinued it as well (and just like with Spector, you can order a bass with the exact same specs as those today, just without the "discount").

Prices have gone up ridiculously the last few years in general - I never thought I'd see a non-custom shop USA Fender bass for $2500! Hell, I remember buying one for $550 in Sam Ash... in 1991!

I just don't get people with no intention or interest in a brand posting to complain about their pricing (or make some other negative comments). There are a bunch of brands I don't care for - I just don't bother clicking on posts about them. And if I do, out of curiosity, I usually keep any negative comments to myself. It's like creating negativity just for the sake of it.

 

[g-dude]

For a person who earns $50k a year, which is roughly $44k after taxes, a $6k bass represents a little less than two months income. To me, that's crazy for the product you're getting in reference to what is available in the consumer market on a whole. If you like it and you think it's worth it to you, buy it. Hell, buy two of you really want to throw cash around. To me, it's a ludicrous amount to spend on what most people consider a hobby. Do you, though.

Median household income is around $72k a year at present - basically, the bass is one month's income for the average household.

Again, if you read my posts, I'm not saying that people should go out and get this bass...in fact, I'm pointing out that if one is able to spend $6k, there's a better way to spend that on a bass. If one wants to get the Spector sound and feel, there's a cheaper way to get it.

But $6k is no more crazy now than $2k was 40 years ago. There are now more substitutes, the price doesn't represent Spector coming up with a number that is unfounded.

Should this excess competition bring down the cost of Spector basses? It has -- that's why we have the Euro LT line, which is half the price, and the Asian made Spectors.

Ultimately, you have to put a value on country of origin. Maybe that value is $3000. Maybe that value is $0. Maybe that value is negative.

Let's flip this on its head for a second: I have no idea what you do for a living, but I promise you that whatever you earn can be undercut through the use of less expensive labor from abroad. I'm not saying that you aren't worth what you're earning, and in fact I'll even say you should be earning more...but it's a big world out there, and there will always be someone willing to work harder in worse conditions for less money.

 

[FugaziBomb]

Again, if you read my posts, I'm not saying that people should go out and get this bass...in fact, I'm pointing out that if one is able to spend $6k, there's a better way to spend that on a bass. If one wants to get the Spector sound and feel, there's a cheaper way to get it.

And I've literally been saying if you have $6k to blast away on a piece of wood, do it. To me, it's foolish.

Do. You.

 

[Relayer71]

Let's flip this on its head for a second: I have no idea what you do for a living, but I promise you that whatever you earn can be undercut through the use of less expensive labor from abroad. I'm not saying that you aren't worth what you're earning, and in fact I'll even say you should be earning more...but it's a big world out there, and there will always be someone willing to work harder in worse conditions for less money.

And it's all relative. Conditions might not necessarily be "worse" for less money. As an American, you can retire in a nice place in a country that is more affordable and live well. For the same amount of retirement savings, you'd be struggling in the U.S., or at least in most major cities.

You don't even have to leave the country to see that: I was paying $2500 in rent for a small 2 bedroom apartment in Queens, NY a few years ago. I could rent a whole house with a huge yard for less than half of that where I'm at currently in SC!

These boutique builders are in expensive cities/states where rent, taxes, salaries tend to be much higher. Healthcare is also very expensive for a smaller company.

But now this is turning into the usual "Are Boutique Basses Worth It" thread .

 

[g-dude]

And it's all relative. Conditions might not necessarily be "worse" for less money. As an American, you can retire in a nice place in a country that is more affordable and live well. For the same amount of retirement savings, you'd be struggling in the U.S., or at least in most major cities.

You don't even have to leave the country to see that: I was paying $2500 in rent for a small 2 bedroom apartment in Queens, NY a few years ago. I could rent a whole house with a huge yard for less than half of that where I'm at currently in SC!

These boutique builders are in expensive cities/states where rent, taxes, salaries tend to be much higher. Healthcare is also very expensive for a smaller company.

But now this is turning into the usual "Are Boutique Basses Worth It" thread .

Yes, conditions don't have the be worse, but there are plenty of people that will put up with conditions that we'd riot in the streets over.

Ultimately I think that for boutique instruments, the real value comes in the used market.

Buy one used, play it, and then sell it on for about what you paid for it.

Works better when you're talking about something that is not high volume but is highly desirable.

 

[bste9]

I’ve owned one.

well I guess you dont know what you're talking about then. Spectors are incredibly balanced

 

[bste9]

I'd rather have a repro of the classic '80s ones that Wimbush played.

thats literally what these are.

 

[bste9]

On some things, yes, but on others, no. I don't care if you pay me to take it, I won't play a bass that is heavy, unbalanced, or that has reach issues. Spectors fail the reach issue (the 14th or 15th fret horn, and the space behind the bridge move the nut to the left), and are generally not balanced well or light. I also don' t like the comb filtering on the close side of a PJ pickup configuration. A bunch of non starters here for me.

this is ridiculous

 

[micguy]

this is ridiculous

So....basic geometry is "ridiculous". Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Hot Rats]

On some things, yes, but on others, no. I don't care if you pay me to take it, I won't play a bass that is heavy, unbalanced, or that has reach issues. Spectors fail the reach issue (the 14th or 15th fret horn, and the space behind the bridge move the nut to the left), and are generally not balanced well or light. I also don' t like the comb filtering on the close side of a PJ pickup configuration. A bunch of non starters here for me.

At one time, I owned a beautiful NS-2J that possibly could have been my one and only bass forever but, that dang reach killed it for me.

 

[micguy]

At one time, I owned a beautiful NS-2J that possibly could have been my one and only bass forever but, that dang reach killed it for me.

I was just informed that my opinion is ridiculous. As you agree with me, apparently yours is as well. ;-)

 

[Hot Rats]

I was just informed that my opinion is ridiculous. Apparently yours is as well. ;-)

Indeed. My wife has informed me of the same thing 3 times already today.

 

[micguy]

Indeed. My wife has said the same thing 3 times already today.

She wasn't talking about basses, and she's probably right. Even if she isn't, your life will be considerably smoother if you proceed as if she is. But you already know that.

 

[mikeswals]

I just don't get people with no intention or interest in a brand posting to complain about their pricing (or make some other negative comments). There are a bunch of brands I don't care for - I just don't bother clicking on posts about them.

Seems to be the way of some folks lately... yup, nothing else could possibly work for so many others!

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Rocking it is not the hard part.

Ain’t that the truth!

I’m grateful that my wife gave me the green light to finally buy a U.S. Spector last Summer for my 60th birthday present. It’s an incredible instrument, and I’d love to own at least one more. But at our age, with retirement looming, I probably won’t.

I also own two Spector Euros, and IMO they’re also incredible instruments.

When I can afford to, I’ll buy a used Spector Euro 5LX to add to my collection.

If you’re wondering, my U.S. Spector is in the middle of the photo.