Double Bass The new "Nadine" mic?

[Brad Maestas]

I received the Nadine today and have been able to do some testing and recording with it. As expected it has a very open and natural response which is exactly what I was looking for. Many of the different pickup systems I've tried over the years have had very noticeable dips or peaks in their response that I have had to rectify on stage or in the house. Some of them are intentional to help fight common problem freqs on stage but they almost always cause more trouble than good in my experience as both musician and engineer.

I'd recently tried the DPA 4099B and found it to have a midrange peak that definitely needed to be dealt with when using it alone which is how I tend to use mics live these days. I have a couple groups I play with that are old-timey that like to go with mics only. This is the critical need I was trying to address and the Nadine seems to be my answer. I will be playing a large theater this weekend so I will be able to really give it a good listen. A couple close friends who play bass will be there to rotate on the bass so we can all listen on stage and out in the house.

After years of blending I stopped for a while when I was trying to travel lighter in NYC. I am looking forward to seeing how this blends with my LifeLine pickup at my next jazz gig. I like the LifeLine so much already. It seems that this is one of the same combos that Christian has arrived at since you can see him playing the Nadine with two LifeLines equipped (but not in the signal chain) in the demo.

 

[bassfacer22]

I received the Nadine today and have been able to do some testing and recording with it. As expected it has a very open and natural response which is exactly what I was looking for. Many of the different pickup systems I've tried over the years have had very noticeable dips or peaks in their response that I have had to rectify on stage or in the house. Some of them are intentional to help fight common problem freqs on stage but they almost always cause more trouble than good in my experience as both musician and engineer.

I'd recently tried the DPA 4099B and found it to have a midrange peak that definitely needed to be dealt with when using it alone which is how I tend to use mics live these days. I have a couple groups I play with that are old-timey that like to go with mics only. This is the critical need I was trying to address and the Nadine seems to be my answer. I will be playing a large theater this weekend so I will be able to really give it a good listen. A couple close friends who play bass will be there to rotate on the bass so we can all listen on stage and out in the house.

After years of blending I stopped for a while when I was trying to travel lighter in NYC. I am looking forward to seeing how this blends with my LifeLine pickup at my next jazz gig. I like the LifeLine so much already. It seems that this is one of the same combos that Christian has arrived at since you can see him playing the Nadine with two LifeLines equipped (but not in the signal chain) in the demo.

I need to compare the nadine to the Ischell, I mean I know the Nadine clearly sounds good, but the problem is it has absolutely no isolation at all right? It's just a mic positioned towards the bottom half of the bass??

The Ischell is a microphone that seals itself to the body and is at-least somewhat isolated by an airtight seal.

So I'm just confused yet christian mcbride uses it and he plays in louder bands for sure.


Now, on the note of the Lifeline, that is very interesting, how does it compare to the Realist, because I can't stand the Realist due to the way you have to have your bridge very specifically on it and the tone and the problems that come from the pressure and frequencies it shoves out.


Have you tried the clip on realist pickup? I wonder how that would do as it's then not based on under the bridge.


Anyway, here is the Ischell on my small-body portable Eminence bass! See what I mean, So I wouldn't even be able to use the Nadine right?



and the other one.

 

[Ric Vice]

By all accounts here on Talkbass the Realist Clip on isn't a great pickup, there are discussion threads, by comparison the Realist Life Line has a lot of endorsers.
Greg Clinkbeard (who works as a repair man for Kansas City Strings, has talked recently about the Realist Wood and feels it gets a much better sound
than the Realist Copper Foil because it's easier to position and seat under the foot of the bridge.

 

[bassfacer22]

By all accounts here on Talkbass the Realist Clip on isn't a great pickup, there are discussion threads, by comparison the Realist Life Line has a lot of endorsers.
Greg Clinkbeard (who works as a repair man for Kansas City Strings, has talked recently about the Realist Wood and feels it gets a much better sound
than the Realist Copper Foil because it's easier to position and seat under the foot of the bridge.

I'll check out the thread on the clip-on.

Now I know it's Master John, and he is using a ridiculously good bass and all, but I mean.. he got it to sound bearable. haha.

 

[bassmanbrent]

I'll check out the thread on the clip-on.

Now I know it's Master John, and he is using a ridiculously good bass and all, but I mean.. he got it to sound bearable. haha.

It seems like the clip on was a great idea that, for whatever reason, never worked that well. Or sounded that great. I can't think of a single bass player, including Mr. Patitucci, that uses one on gigs...

 

[Wasnex]

It seems like the clip on was a great idea that, for whatever reason, never worked that well. Or sounded that great. I can't think of a single bass player, including Mr. Patitucci, that uses one on gigs...

The Realist Sound-Clip is the absolute worse sounding pickup I have ever come across. Seriously . None of my tricks could make this pickup usable...and I tried a bunch of tricks.

I had pretty good luck with the original Realist. The last bass I used one on was an extremely resonant Lakeberg Baer, and the low end was a bit too woofy. I always assumed the bass was just too lively to amplify well as the Realist worked fine on every other basses I tried it on. Actually I found the Realist relatively neutral and transparent, and at the time I think it was pretty much the best pickup on the market.

 

[kerrycares]

I reached out to CMB sound tech and she states that when mixing the bass live, the Nadine is used to send a signal to a Phoenix Audio mono Preamp to FOH and the pickup on his bass is the backup.
This sounds consistent to John Patitucci that uses the DPA sending a signal to a Felix to FOH.

I’m sensing a Nadine is going to be in my Christmas stocking.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@kerrycares If I were to be performing consistently in venues with FOH support, that is exactly what I would do - run a Nadine mic to the FOH and use a pickup for basic stage presence. I've used the AMT and DPA and while they have their good points, I absolutely hate those tiny little delicate cables. I much prefer the sturdy steampunk-esque build of the Nadine and the fact that it uses a regular XLR cable attached to the tailpiece, and that the wiring from there to the mic capsule is substantial.

Critics often worry that the weight of the brass barrel would be too much weight on the tailpiece, but IME when I'm amplifying a little dampening of sympathetic vibration of the after length is rarely a bad thing. I think it's a really well designed product.

 

[unbrokenchain]

...I absolutely hate those tiny little delicate cables.

But you dig the Full Circle?

 

[bassfiddlesteve]

Is anybody else concerned about the static placement of the Nadine? I have the DPA d:vote 4099B and I appreciate being able to re-position it to achieve optimum sound. The Nadine mic basically just has one option for location which might not be ideal in every situation.

- Steve

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

But you dig the Full Circle?

Yes! Mine have been pretty much trouble free over the years. Have had to replace one on each bass after 7-8 years of constant use, and even then the crystals crapped out gradually enough for me to make plans. Those cables seem pretty robust to me and they stay out of harm's way. If they wanted to improve the product, I think a removable/replaceable cable between adjuster and 1/4" jack like the Yamahiko design would be a no brainer.

 

[kerrycares]

@Chris Fitzgerald , yeah I’m wondering how going into an amp may vary differently than FOH and that’s why I haven’t pulled the trigger. If it requires phantom power I think my EA doubler ll can accommodate it. If I did buy one it would have to be directly from Ear Trumpets to have the 30 day return policy as reassurance.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I don’t advocate mics into amps these days. A few people here still write about it, it I gave that up long ago.

 

[bassmanbrent]

I don’t advocate mics into amps these days. A few people here still write about it, it I gave that up long ago.

My thoughts exactly. I still have my DPA, but only use it for concerts with a PA setup so it can be used in the mains.

 

[unbrokenchain]

IME dynamics like 57 and 58s can be run through amps depending on position and stage volume (why would you? Dunno, maybe your pickup broke. Just saying it can be done Condensers, you're playing with fire... FOH only. Never used a Nadine personally but I've run sound for folks who used them and other ETL products. Excellent sound quality but you'd better have a nice curtain behind the band if you want any stage volume from it..

 

[bassfacer22]

Excellent sound quality but you'd better have a nice curtain behind the band if you want any stage volume from it..

Exactly my thoughts. It's why I continue to use the Ischell because of its isolation using some super updated putty now.

But I know the Nadine sounds awesome, but truth is, it's just a good mic with a position on the tail end of the strings facing up with no isolation just like the DPA or others.

I know they are good for most gigs, but is the Nadine the new and improved mic for bass players just because it sits on the end of the strings under the bridge with no isolation right?

Anyway, looking forward to sound clips of anyone that recently has it and lets see how much it picks up.

I would buy the Nadine right now if there is a way to just isolate it somewhat, even just some - or like there should be a 2 mic system going to the F-hole along with under the bridge or who knows, but my worry is isolation on gigs you have to turn up which I oddly find myself doing more often then not lately.

Please don't think I'm bashing this mic, I know it sounds good, as my favorite Christian Mcbride uses it!

But I sure which he used it on this gig haha. What is this pickup realist? I see the AMT mic on the side there.. but the sound is definitely from a peizo pickup..

Anyway It would have been very interesting to hear this type of gig with the nadine.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

These are good points. I've been wondering if Nadine is a "standard" cardioid pattern and whether the manufacturer tested variations in the polar pattern. I have a Peluso 22 251 large diaphragm tube condenser mic and the power box provides a switch with 9 polar pattern options. When I mic a bass cabinet or other source relatively close in, I've had great success with a slightly tighter-than-normal cardioid setting (1 click to right). Some call that a "super cardioid" pattern. The mic's range is from omnidirectional --> cardioid (middle setting) --> bidirectional or "figure of 8". The tighter cardioid setting reduces adjacent room noise but slightly boosts proximity effect. The omni setting has no proximity effect. Anyway, it would be interesting to hear the decision making process for setting Nadine's cardioid setting where it is for the double bass in relation to other factors mentioned.

This short video lets you hear a person speaking through each of the 9 polar patterns on the 22 251.

 

[kerrycares]

I did a gig last night with my bass , Lifeline , TC Electronic BQ500 and Crazy 8 cab and I really thought all night about how the Nadine or any microphone would have made my sound any better.
I’m not gassing anymore but there is still some mild interest.
I can appreciate a FOH application like CMB does on a regular basis.

 

[Brad Maestas]

I need to compare the nadine to the Ischell, I mean I know the Nadine clearly sounds good, but the problem is it has absolutely no isolation at all right? It's just a mic positioned towards the bottom half of the bass??

Now, on the note of the Lifeline, that is very interesting, how does it compare to the Realist, because I can't stand the Realist due to the way you have to have your bridge very specifically on it and the tone and the problems that come from the pressure and frequencies it shoves out.

Have you tried the clip on realist pickup? I wonder how that would do as it's then not based on under the bridge.

Anyway, here is the Ischell on my small-body portable Eminence bass! See what I mean, So I wouldn't even be able to use the Nadine right?

The only real isolation the Nadine has is the properties of its cardioid polar pattern. It has great rejection 180 degrees off axis but yes, other source can bleed in if they're loud enough. As I mentioned I bought it knowing that I plan to employ it in quieter, more intimate acoustic situations where I'm not right next to a drumkit.

As far as the LL vs Realist, I can only compare the original copper head Realists. I never owned one of the newer ones. I found the older design to have some midrange humps but overall good low end and adequate for stage amps and FOH feeds. It definitely didn't give much treble information but that wasn't really in its design. I find the LL pickup to be much more of a natural presentation with an equal amount of information across the frequency range, a flatter midrange, and more high end detail. I did get to try the clip on one and found that it seemed a bit blurry and unfocused. A decent amount of mids and highs but the low end was not solid enough for me.

It looks to me like you'd be able to mount the Nadine on your after-bridge lenths as normal but you would probably have to get creative with a way to mount the transformer/output piece. But for a bass like yours I think a contact mic is probably the best way to go. It doesn't have a lot of acoustic output so mic'ing it up seems a bit futile for that bit of top end. That seems to come through loud and clear with the Ischell.

 

[Brad Maestas]

Is anybody else concerned about the static placement of the Nadine? I have the DPA d:vote 4099B and I appreciate being able to re-position it to achieve optimum sound. The Nadine mic basically just has one option for location which might not be ideal in every situation.

- Steve

It is not completely static since it can move vertically on the string lengths and the capsule is capable of some movement but yes it is definitely less flexible than a gooseneck like the DPA. I don't find this a hindrance because my bass sounds good there and I usually end up putting mics around there anyway. I get a great balance with the Nadine. It certainly may not be ideal for every bass in that location and I think their return policy reflects that.