The Official MTD USA Thread

[DRay521]

"the mid push of wenge without the choke". Pretty much his exact words, and also the truth IME. IMHO the ash neck will not have the problem you (and I) have with the wenge with the higher notes (that's that upper mid choke/compression wenge has... sounds fantastic for slap, but at least for my playing style, it really hurts my fingerstyle tone.)

I wonder if the slight complaint (and that's not really a fair word) I have with my bass is in the neck or body.

My bass has a korina body with no top, and a wenge neck/fb. I love the tone, but find that it lacks the punch and aggression I need in order to consider it perfect. Based on all the research I've done, I feel like an ash body and a nice top with the wenge would be a perfect combo for me since I like the darker voice of the wenge. But now I'm trying to figure out if the sound I'm missing is the "choke" you're talking about. Any way you could explain the choke and help me figure out what to do to get the tone I'm looking for? Like I said, this bass is really close, just not as aggressive or punchy as I'd like.

 

[Vic]

I wonder if the slight complaint (and that's not really a fair word) I have with my bass is in the neck or body.

My bass has a korina body with no top, and a wenge neck/fb. I love the tone, but find that it lacks the punch and aggression I need in order to consider it perfect. Based on all the research I've done, I feel like an ash body and a nice top with the wenge would be a perfect combo for me since I like the darker voice of the wenge. But now I'm trying to figure out if the sound I'm missing is the "choke" you're talking about. Any way you could explain the choke and help me figure out what to do to get the tone I'm looking for? Like I said, this bass is really close, just not as aggressive or punchy as I'd like.

Well, I also like an aggressive tone, and the wenge (IME!) has a choke in the upper mids which gives it a great slap tone, but really cuts the fingerstyle aggression. It's also got a low mid push (as does ash), so folks who like a "bassier" tone, like people that play over the neck pickup more, or generally even favor the neck pickup will also love wenge, but if you dig a more aggressive fingerstyle tone, like back towards the bridge, I think this is where ash (or even maple) pulls ahead of wenge (significantly, for me). A maple neck is pretty even tempered regarding what we're all used to. An ash neck, by my experiences and Mike's descriptions, has a low mid push similar to wenge, but doesn't have that upper mid compression that drove me nuts.

So... IF you're having the same problem I had, I'd urge you to get away from the wenge neck and go either maple or ash. Also IMHO, it's hard to go wrong with an ash body (it's actually my fave), but I also feel alder is a good choice for a familiar and versatile tone base. I don't have as much experience with black limba and korina. I have some experience with poplar/tulip, but it's been a while. Mainly though, I would suggest you talk to Mike more as well, but I would think moving away from the wenge neck might even be more focal than altering body woods.

IMHO!!

If you do end up talking to Mike, as I really feel you should, please relay his comments here as well.

 

[DRay521]

Well, I also like an aggressive tone, and the wenge (IME!) has a choke in the upper mids which gives it a great slap tone, but really cuts the fingerstyle aggression. It's also got a low mid push (as does ash), so folks who like a "bassier" tone, like people that play over the neck pickup more, or generally even favor the neck pickup will also love wenge, but if you dig a more aggressive fingerstyle tone, like back towards the bridge, I think this is where ash (or even maple) pulls ahead of wenge (significantly, for me). A maple neck is pretty even tempered regarding what we're all used to. An ash neck, by my experiences and Mike's descriptions, has a low mid push similar to wenge, but doesn't have that upper mid compression that drove me nuts.

So... IF you're having the same problem I had, I'd urge you to get away from the wenge neck and go either maple or ash. Also IMHO, it's hard to go wrong with an ash body (it's actually my fave), but I also feel alder is a good choice for a familiar and versatile tone base. I don't have as much experience with black limba and korina. I have some experience with poplar/tulip, but it's been a while. Mainly though, I would suggest you talk to Mike more as well, but I would think moving away from the wenge neck might even be more focal than altering body woods.

IMHO!!

If you do end up talking to Mike, as I really feel you should, please relay his comments here as well.

I agree, I definitely need to talk to Mike about it. I need some work done on my bass anyway, so I'll ask him when I contact him about that.

I tend to favor the neck pickup and play over that pickup as well, but I like it because I get that nice modern bite when I dig in at that position. I like the bridge pickup sound of my bass, but it seems, hmm, a little thin. Punchy, but not the kind of punch that really hits you in the chest. Just more of a "conical" sound, less round, if that makes sense. Based on the frequencies I feel like I'm missing, I think an ash body and nice maple burl top would really fill out the sound, even keeping the wenge. I've never been a big maple fb guy, as I've always found I get far too bright a sound from that with my playing style. IME, of course. That's why I'm hesitant of the ash neck, since Mike generally pairs that with a maple fb.

But Vic, it's like you said, and I believe it may very well be your motto: "Trust Mike." Totally true statement. I think he knows a little better than we do.

 

[Vic]

I agree, I definitely need to talk to Mike about it. I need some work done on my bass anyway, so I'll ask him when I contact him about that.

I tend to favor the neck pickup and play over that pickup as well, but I like it because I get that nice modern bite when I dig in at that position. I like the bridge pickup sound of my bass, but it seems, hmm, a little thin. Punchy, but not the kind of punch that really hits you in the chest. Just more of a "conical" sound, less round, if that makes sense. Based on the frequencies I feel like I'm missing, I think an ash body and nice maple burl top would really fill out the sound, even keeping the wenge. I've never been a big maple fb guy, as I've always found I get far too bright a sound from that with my playing style. IME, of course. That's why I'm hesitant of the ash neck, since Mike generally pairs that with a maple fb.

But Vic, it's like you said, and I believe it may very well be your motto: "Trust Mike." Totally true statement. I think he knows a little better than we do.

Awesome. I would also be interested to know if he recommends a maple neck with a rosewood board maybe? I do agree the bridge pickup can sound thin on these without some added EQ. I'm pretty sure that's a function of how close to the bridge they are, which is why I never totally solo them... but I do favor them sometimes.

That said, with what you just said, maybe wenge isn't bad for you after all, but it just depends on exactly what you may be missing for what you look for as "aggression". Since that's kind of a subjective word, we all probably interpret that a little differently. Obviously, for me, it translates fairly directly to what's compressed with wenge necks. Maybe not for you.

Main thing is, and you may already know this, plan ahead and make sure you can relate your exact tonal goals effectively in words before you call Mike. Maybe even use some musical examples like "xxxx's tone on that yyyy song" type stuff. If you can effectively tell him what you want, he can very effectively get you there.

 

[LikeButtah]

OK who bought this one... because I am just completely drooling over it.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[tombowlus]

Wow, that is actually pretty close to the specs that Mike and I have been discussing for my "in progress" 535. Very nice!

 

[antontanzil]

I called Mike today about buying the MTD Single B-Strings. He told me to call Rudy's here in town, and they're anything but hepful, saying that they can't, don't and won't sell MTD Single strings, although I told them I want to buy 6 of them (which is like $60 total).

So, I called Mike again, he was not happy, but can't really do anything about it, so he called Dale Titus at danabgoods to have him contact me, and Dale refer me to BassCentral, FL, and I'll be getting my strings in about a week

Bottom line, for a guy his caliber, Mike Tobias is extremely cool, he's still willing to help me to buy some strings though I believe he's busy.

Also, I asked him about the colour difference between my Ash neck and my Ash body. And he told me that the Ash body has a little more brown colour than the neck wood, just slightly darker. But then he applied some stain on the finish (only for the back) so the colour wouldn't be that contrast with the very dark-natural Walnut top.

I was gonna ask him some more question, but I'm affraid to waste too many of his time. So I figure, I'll ask arround here first, here are some of my questions:

1. What kind of pickups are the Bartolinis on the 535 (Dual coil or Split coil, etc)? I remember hearing Mike said that they're reverse-P Pickups.

2. Why doesn't Mike have the pickups housed in a wood cover? The MTD kingston has Wood covers. Is it to save some cost, or???

3. What kind of wax, or polish is the best to treat the MTD finish?

4. And the most important question: What is a BFTS exactly is? And how to maximized it's use? I read about the KORG DT7 tuner and such, but still didn't really get the point.

Thanks for the answers guys...

 

[Vic]

1. What kind of pickups are the Bartolinis on the 535 (Dual coil or Split coil, etc)? I remember hearing Mike said that they're reverse-P Pickups.

If they're reverse P, they're split coils. Regardless, they're completely proprietary customs made only for Mike, and as far as I know, still the only active pickups Bill makes.

2. Why doesn't Mike have the pickups housed in a wood cover? The MTD kingston has Wood covers. Is it to save some cost, or???

Only Mike can answer this for sure, but I'm guessing he just doesn't have enough demand to justify it.

3. What kind of wax, or polish is the best to treat the MTD finish?

Mike's typically told people his finish doesn't need any wax. Just clean it off with a moist towel or maybe a gentle cleaner as needed. If you want to eventually make it all kinda' shiny, he's told folks they can use Butcher's wax. I just wipe mine off and they're fine.

4. And the most important question: What is a BFTS exactly is? And how to maximized it's use? I read about the KORG DT7 tuner and such, but still didn't really get the point.

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

 

[antontanzil]

If they're reverse P, they're split coils. Regardless, they're completely proprietary customs made only for Mike, and as far as I know, still the only active pickups Bill makes.

Only Mike can answer this for sure, but I'm guessing he just doesn't have enough demand to justify it.

Mike's typically told people his finish doesn't need any wax. Just clean it off with a moist towel or maybe a gentle cleaner as needed. If you want to eventually make it all kinda' shiny, he's told folks they can use Butcher's wax. I just wipe mine off and they're fine.

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

I asked Mike about the Pickups being active/not, and he said that they're not active pickups. It used to be active on the older MTDs, but now their passive, the buffer with the trimmer that we discuss about earlier is the preamp that used to be 'inside the pickups'. But the pickup cannot operate without the preamp, coz the output is too low, said Mike.

I guess I'll call Mike again tomorrow to ask some more questions, and I want to tell him that I got the strings.

Thanks Vic...

 

[Vic]

I asked Mike about the Pickups being active/not, and he said that they're not active pickups. It used to be active on the older MTDs, but now their passive, the buffer with the trimmer that we discuss about earlier is the preamp that used to be 'inside the pickups'. But the pickup cannot operate without the preamp, coz the output is too low, said Mike.

I guess I'll call Mike again tomorrow to ask some more questions, and I want to tell him that I got the strings.

Thanks Vic...

This is true, but IMHO, even though the pickup shells themselves no longer take power for an integral preamp, they still (as Mike said) require the separate pre-preamp, so I still consider them to be an "active pickup system". BTW, the pickup preamp is the third module in your control cavity.

 

[antontanzil]

This is true, but IMHO, even though the pickup shells themselves no longer take power for an integral preamp, they still (as Mike said) require the separate pre-preamp, so I still consider them to be an "active pickup system". BTW, the pickup preamp is the third module in your control cavity.

Yes... It's called a 'buffer', I think that's the general term of the device...
Well said Vic... Anyways, it's my favorite pickups so far, noiseless, but still very alive, not like any other active pickups out there.

 

[bass12]

I agree, I definitely need to talk to Mike about it. I need some work done on my bass anyway, so I'll ask him when I contact him about that.

I tend to favor the neck pickup and play over that pickup as well, but I like it because I get that nice modern bite when I dig in at that position. I like the bridge pickup sound of my bass, but it seems, hmm, a little thin. Punchy, but not the kind of punch that really hits you in the chest. Just more of a "conical" sound, less round, if that makes sense. Based on the frequencies I feel like I'm missing, I think an ash body and nice maple burl top would really fill out the sound, even keeping the wenge. I've never been a big maple fb guy, as I've always found I get far too bright a sound from that with my playing style. IME, of course. That's why I'm hesitant of the ash neck, since Mike generally pairs that with a maple fb.
:

My 535 has an ash body with maple burl top and a wenge/wenge neck.
It definitely has that wenge compression that Vic has mentioned, but it is also the punchiest bass I have ever owned. I really doubt that the lack of punch you're describing is due to the wenge neck and fingerboard. Of course, it's difficult to be sure if my interpretation of punch is the same as yours. If you ask Mike, he'll tell you that an ash body produces a tone which begins as "growly" and is then followed by a "punch". I'm not sure how he would describe a limba body, but I don't imagine that "punchiness" would be one of the main descriptors. Anyway, as Vic has pointed out, the best thing to do is talk to Mike. I would just like to toss in my vote for the ash/maple/wenge/wenge - it's a great combination that a lot of MTD players seem to love.

 

[bass12]

I called Mike today about buying the MTD Single B-Strings. He told me to call Rudy's here in town, and they're anything but hepful, saying that they can't, don't and won't sell MTD Single strings, although I told them I want to buy 6 of them (which is like $60 total).

So, I called Mike again, he was not happy, but can't really do anything about it, so he called Dale Titus at danabgoods to have him contact me, and Dale refer me to BassCentral, FL, and I'll be getting my strings in about a week

The guys at DanaB have been great any time I've dealt with them. I haven't dealt with Bass Central, but I've had good luck in the MTD string department with the folks at BassXchange.

2. Why doesn't Mike have the pickups housed in a wood cover? The MTD kingston has Wood covers. Is it to save some cost, or???

I gotta say, I can't stand wood pickup covers. I know some people love them but I just find them tacky. I like the plain old look of the Barts as they are (just in case Mike is reading this )

4. And the most important question: What is a BFTS exactly is? And how to maximized it's use? I read about the KORG DT7 tuner and such, but still didn't really get the point.

I know Vic has already posted a link, so I'll just add this: you really don't need to worry about the BFTS unless you are setting your intonation. Once the intonation is set on your bass, you tune it just as you would tune a regular bass. If you'd like Mike's instructions on setting intonation on a BFTS-equipped bass, I can send them to you.

 

[LikeButtah]

You're a good man for not bugging him. I try to limit my queries to 1 email per month at most, and for stuff Google can't answer.

I care for my finish using lemon oil and gently buffing it. After a few months, it develops a nice oil painting look. After a few years when the wood sets in, you'll notice a nice even sheen and maybe some texture on the surface where the wood set in. Others use butchers wax but you have to be real careful with wax as you can overpolish some areas over others, leading to an uneven sheen. Once you wax, oiling is also pretty difficult.

IMHO the BFTS is entirely useless, it's just a patent on how to intonate a guitar. The zero fret part of it was only needed to make it patentable. Follow mikes instructions on tuning it with any equal tempered tuner and it'll sound great. If you find yourself without one, you'll be fine tuning to open string.

 

[t0t0m]

You're a good man for not bugging him. I try to limit my queries to 1 email per month at most, and for stuff Google can't answer.

I care for my finish using lemon oil and gently buffing it. After a few months, it develops a nice oil painting look. After a few years when the wood sets in, you'll notice a nice even sheen and maybe some texture on the surface where the wood set in. Others use butchers wax but you have to be real careful with wax as you can overpolish some areas over others, leading to an uneven sheen. Once you wax, oiling is also pretty difficult.

IMHO the BFTS is entirely useless, it's just a patent on how to intonate a guitar. The zero fret part of it was only needed to make it patentable. Follow mikes instructions on tuning it with any equal tempered tuner and it'll sound great. If you find yourself without one, you'll be fine tuning to open string.

I agree with this statement..

 

[bass12]

IMHO the BFTS is entirely useless, it's just a patent on how to intonate a guitar. The zero fret part of it was only needed to make it patentable. Follow mikes instructions on tuning it with any equal tempered tuner and it'll sound great. If you find yourself without one, you'll be fine tuning to open string.

From what I understand, Mike's use of the zero fret has nothing to do with the BFTS (a system which apparently works, but I'll be damned if I notice a difference).

 

[LikeButtah]

Moving the nut up is a BFTS thing; Mike does this with the zero-fret, but others use the lame BFTS nut with the lightning bolt on it

 

[Vic]

From what I understand, Mike's use of the zero fret has nothing to do with the BFTS (a system which apparently works, but I'll be damned if I notice a difference).

His use of it has nothing to do with the BFTS, but his location of it does.

In fact, for a typical BFTS, you need a special nut that also moves the break point forward. There's a whole commentary on their site about when you have a zero-fret instead of a nut because of this.

 

[Vic]

Moving the nut up is a BFTS thing; Mike does this with the zero-fret, but others use the lame BFTS nut with the lightning bolt on it

That nut actually serves a purpose. It's shelved so it moves the break point forward (towards the bridge) WITHOUT requiring the manufacturer to alter their machines to move the nut slot.

 

[LikeButtah]

That nut actually serves a purpose. It's shelved so it moves the break point forward (towards the bridge) WITHOUT requiring the manufacturer to alter their machines to move the nut slot.

Aye, but its affect is negligible... without it, patenting and marketing a "technique to intonate a geetar" wouldn't fly.