The Paracast - UFO's & Paranormal

[Fretless]

Yeah, Jeez. Exactly. I don't exactly need a box of Kleenex, but Jesus Christ, I didn't think there would be this amount of crap degrading the subject matter.

Well, to be fair. UFOs are a contentious topic, and there are always people who will try to exploit it in order to get a laugh or make themselves seem more normal or smarter than the believers. Usually those people have never seen an alien craft for themselves, so they have no firsthand experience upon which to base a belief. That coupled with the challenge of getting the right information from other sources, and it's no wonder that there are non-believers. We ( speaking as a believer ) have to respect the position that the non-believers are in. They simply don't have sufficient evidence, and that's perfectly fair.

What isn't fair is when some of them choose to launch personal attacks or criticism rather than taking the time to consider the subject in some depth. There seems to be less and less derision toward UFO believers these days, but at the same time, that also makes it easier for the hoaxers and exploiters ply their trade. It's a tough subject to get a really good grip on the truth about. If I hadn't seen one of the damn things for myself, I'd probably never have delved into it as deeply as I have, and I'd probably be as non-committal as anyone else about it.

 

[96tbird]

What is unfair is the immediate PFFT this subject gets from some quarters. The physics against interstellar travel are based only only a small earthly understanding of what we have observed. I just don't think that's the end of it. Especially when the same astro physicists start talking about dark matter and the big rip. They can't go beyond conjecture that a thing like dark matter exists then predict it causing the big rip. All because the matter in the universe is accelerating away from itself.

The limits of physics lead that dark matter is a substance because it has gravitational properties. It's logical conjecture based on what we know. What about what we don't know?

Anyway, twice I have seem some pretty startling events in the sky. Unexplainable. Once low and slow and once high and much faster than an aircraft, slower than ISS. Both exhibited an impossible maneuver if you take physics into account: impossibly rapid direction change. Both times, the light emitted was steady and bright and especially the high one which was strong enough to not twinkle in the atmosphere. I've seen satellites over head and the space station whipping over before but not ones that make rapid 90 to 100 degree turns and then accelerate impossibly and disappear.

There is no evidence. So you all can just read this and go PFFT. Good for you. I used to say PFFT too; not any longer. It has made me question straight line logic in a universe that I have been told has dark matter. And strings that begat "our" matter out of some kind of energy or other matter. Straight line logic seems to run into some pretty big roadblocks around these items.

Plus, it's a lot of fun to ponder crazy shiz. Just as much fun as it is to ponder logical explanation.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

That demonstrates that you have no idea what you're talking about.

You know, a bit of a more polite comment may be more appropriate and less obnoxious, like maybe provide some information that would help rather than just being rude. I know you aren't really a bad guy, but this was not necessary.

 

[Gorn]

Here's a really good explanation of the difference between the two usages of the word theory:

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Here's a really good explanation of the difference between the two usages of the word theory:

Very good. That is what I got from doing some reading after Mungibugger jumped on me for my not understand the word from a scientific perspective.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

As though there's a worldwide "scientist conspiracy." Scientists police themselves. They love to find flaws in others' findings and theories. Such things that don't pass the scrutiny of scientists in the same field are exposed in refereed publications. For example, Pons and Fleischmann's cold fusion experiments - their research was flawed, they were exposed, and they faded into obscurity.

Surely you mean "Undermined by an international cabal of the Bilderberger group, GM, Illuminati, and RIAA"?

 

[Munjibunga]

Surely you mean "Undermined by an international cabal of the Bilderberger group, GM, Illuminati, and RIAA"?

Yeah, yeah, yeah ...

 

[-Asdfgh-]

"You know, a chimpanzee sitting in this seat would consume this banana in pretty much the same way I do. What separates us from chimpanzees is that apes like us built this plane."

Given how many airlines fail you have to wonder if the chimps are not the brighter ones...

 

[-Asdfgh-]

There's a difference between believing other civilizations exist, and believing paranormal tomfoolery.

Three categories seem to present themselves...

Other civilisations existing is not precluded by the laws of physics as we know them, and depending on what figures you feed into the Drake "Equation" you can get suggestions that it is likely or unlikely that there might be some. Maybe you could consider that to be like a new subatomic particle - predicted by science but not yet observed. Any theory suggesting them should be testable even if we do not have the tests available.

There is nothing in the laws of biology that would particularly preclude a unicorn (ok, horses don't have genes for the specific development horns, but a mutation would not be impossible given other ungulates do) but there is also nothing in biology that suggests that they should exist, thus no reason to go looking for them, but you'd change textbooks on biology if you found it.

Then there are things such as ESP: the brain does not (yet) come with built-in wifi and so there is no known mechanism for it within physics as we know it so the sceptical position would be to not believe it unless presented with sufficiently convincing evidence. You can have evidence without mechanisms being presented, e.g. F=ma but that describes, with predictive capability, how things interact at slow speeds, but not how the interaction is intermediated.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I see a number of posts that focus on the concept of evidence. The first thing about evidence when it comes to UFOs ( alien craft ) is that there's plenty of evidence. The real issue is how much weight that evidence deserves. Verifiable material scientifically valid evidence ( VMS for convenience ) carries a lot of weight, but unfortunately, the public has no access to that kind of evidence when it comes to alien visitation.

There are two main types of data. One is purely observational because you can't conduct an experiment to add to it. E.g. we can't create a galaxy and observe it for a few billion years, we can only gather from pre-existing ones. The other is one that is under controlled conditions (e.g. clinical trials, classic lab experiments). Both types are also subject to measurement errors, both random and systematic, and errors in the way evidence has been collected, and those are under relatively controlled evidence collection regimes, plus outright errors (measuring from a device when you've forgotten to actually put the probe into place as I did in my undergrad days).

 

[Munjibunga]

Given how many airlines fail you have to wonder if the chimps are not the brighter ones...

You're aware, of course, that air travel is the safest mode of travel. There are over 102,000 airline flights per day, and well over 8.2 million passengers per day, amounting to about 1.6 billion (with a "b") passenger miles per day. There were 761 deaths from air crashes worldwide in 2014, out of about 3 billion passengers.

Just in the U.S. there were over 32,000 ground traffic fatalities in 2013, or about 10 deaths per 100,000 people. In airline crashes, there were 0.025 deaths per 100,000 passengers, or 0.22 deaths per 100,000 population. (That last statistic is not particularly valid, since not all airline passengers are Americans.)

 

[-Asdfgh-]

You're aware, of course, that air travel is the safest mode of travel.

It was a comment on the old adage "How do you become a millionaire? Be a billionaire and buy an airline" not on safety. But it wasn't very funny.

 

[Munjibunga]

There are two main types of data. One is purely observational because you can't conduct an experiment to add to it. E.g. we can't create a galaxy and observe it for a few billion years, we can only gather from pre-existing ones. The other is one that is under controlled conditions (e.g. clinical trials, classic lab experiments). Both types are also subject to measurement errors, both random and systematic, and errors in the way evidence has been collected, and those are under relatively controlled evidence collection regimes, plus outright errors (measuring from a device when you've forgotten to actually put the probe into place as I did in my undergrad days).

And there is neither kind of evidence for alien visitations.

 

[Munjibunga]

It was a comment on the old adage "How do you become a millionaire? Be a billionaire and buy an airline" not on safety. But it wasn't very funny.

On a smaller scale, you or I could just buy a boat.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

And there is neither kind of evidence for alien visitations.

I left working out that bit as an exercise for the reader

 

[-Asdfgh-]

P.S. By "ways in which the evidence is collected" I mean errors in design. A systematic error might be that a thermometer always reads 40 when it is really 39. If you know then you can correct for it. If you do not, you can't. An error in design could be failing to measure temperature in an experiment at all when that is an important factor. I've heard of experiments in lab conditions on ESP, etc., which have poor design and fail to measure things that should have been measured. Since something not measured is almost impossible to control with then in many circumstances it leads to poor reproducibility, and so an effect seen in an ESP experiment might not be found in another, apparently identical example. Capturing every variable is not realistic, though.

 

[rtslinger]

Wow this thing went in many direction when all the OP asked was did you ever check out a paracast- ufos- paranormal if it interests you. No matter the opinion others if you have seen something you know isn't right if it was flying in the sky or spirits or lived through a haunting as some of us have, you don't need convincing, it changes you, it makes your grown children to this day sleep with the lights on, after waking up to a little girl standing in your room. It is when reality and fiction collide when your thoughts go to this can't be real, when at 3pm in the afternoon you see a shadow person walk out of a closed door not 4 ft in front of you in broad daylight and walk into a wall. When lights are in picture you are taking near your children that you don't see with the naked eye and then you do see something a Black Orb and stare at it in amazement as it travels across your floor at a high rate of speed under your furniture an you and others see the same thing. After that you are changed and nothing any skeptic rational person that used to be you will ever make you see it any other way. Yeah my house is haunted my children 30, 20, 19 all sleep with the lights on. Everyone has seen things heard things Hearing family members calling out and when you go to find out what they want they didn't say anything it has been happening since I bought my house in 1998 in happen to me the first time I was alone in the house repainting cabinet handles in my basement and I sent my wife and kids out to get more paint at home depot I heard footsteps of people upstairs I said out loud oh I need something else too ran up the stairs to find no one in the house the door locked. that was my first time the next thing that happen to me changed my view of it forever I got home from work and head toward the basement and down the stairs to the family room and our summer kitchen ( what Italian doesn't have a summer kitchen) as I round the corner I saw someone in white shorts and socks run into the kitchen I thought it was my older son he had a habit of eating out of the ice cream carton, there are 3 steps into the kitchen once you are in there, there is no other exit so I ran towards the kitchen thinking I would catch him putting it away with a ahhha I found no one in the kitchen no one! I know I saw it because my rational mind automatically move to it is my son and now I caught him. I stood there and all I could say was I saw you out loud to an empty kitchen. And I threaten it not to bother my children who were very little at the time. My wife's cousin was staying with us till he could fine his own place a non believer who had never ever had any experiences in his 26 years of life. We were on vacation coming home on Sunday it was Thursday night he was alone in the house in the basement in the family room watching Jon Stewart he heard the front door open and people shuffling in and talking loudly he ran up the stairs and rounded the corner into the living room saying what happen I thought you guys were coming home Sunday? He found himself standing alone in the living room with the front door dead bolted and chained as he had left it. He told us the story on Sunday and moved out on Tuesday that same week. Even with celebrating Christmas holiday as they do in Peru where they are from which is celebrated from 12am till whenever he would not sleep over, I found myself driving him home at 4am! All of the science and analytical reasoning that is my nature "I am a computer IT person" doesn’t change it when you live with it the rest is Bull sh*t felt I had to share and don't bother to give me your theories I have run every possible scenario in my mind. By the way this isn't everything I will leave the rest for the novel. But I will add the craziest one that happen to my wife she was cooking in the summer kitchen and had just finished up and was carry a pot upstairs. She told my youngest son sitting on the couch down there to grab the pan off the stove he said okay. I was upstairs and she came into the dinning area, I said is there anything else that needs to come up? and she said no, I told Stefano to bring up the last pan. I said you told Stefano to bring up the pan? She said yes he said he is. So she walked over to the stairs and yelled down, Stefano the food is going to get cold and he came out of his room right off the dining area where I know he had been the entire time studying saying I'm here what's for diner? She looked at him and then down the steps and just closed the door leading to the basement she walked over to me and said he was downstairs on the couch and answered me he sounded just like Stefano yeah folks how f'ed up is that!

 

[ddnidd1]

Wow. With those images I am now totally convinced!

What had I been thinking?

 

[Gorn]

Wow this thing went in many direction when all the OP asked was did you ever check out a paracast- ufos- paranormal if it interests you. No matter the opinion others if you have seen something you know isn't right if it was flying in the sky or spirits or lived through a haunting as some of us have, you don't need convincing, it changes you, it makes your grown children to this day sleep with the lights on, after waking up to a little girl standing in your room. It is when reality and fiction collide when your thoughts go to this can't be real, when at 3pm in the afternoon you see a shadow person walk out of a closed door not 4 ft in front of you in broad daylight and walk into a wall. When lights are in picture you are taking near your children that you don't see with the naked eye and then you do see something a Black Orb and stare at it in amazement as it travels across your floor at a high rate of speed under your furniture an you and others see the same thing. After that you are changed and nothing any skeptic rational person that used to be you will ever make you see it any other way. Yeah my house is haunted my children 30, 20, 19 all sleep with the lights on. Everyone has seen things heard things Hearing family members calling out and when you go to find out what they want they didn't say anything it has been happening since I bought my house in 1998 in happen to me the first time I was alone in the house repainting cabinet handles in my basement and I sent my wife and kids out to get more paint at home depot I heard footsteps of people upstairs I said out loud oh I need something else too ran up the stairs to find no one in the house the door locked. that was my first time the next thing that happen to me changed my view of it forever I got home from work and head toward the basement and down the stairs to the family room and our summer kitchen ( what Italian doesn't have a summer kitchen) as I round the corner I saw someone in white shorts and socks run into the kitchen I thought it was my older son he had a habit of eating out of the ice cream carton, there are 3 steps into the kitchen once you are in there, there is no other exit so I ran towards the kitchen thinking I would catch him putting it away with a ahhha I found no one in the kitchen no one! I know I saw it because my rational mind automatically move to it is my son and now I caught him. I stood there and all I could say was I saw you out loud to an empty kitchen. And I threaten it not to bother my children who were very little at the time. My wife's cousin was staying with us till he could fine his own place a non believer who had never ever had any experiences in his 26 years of life. We were on vacation coming home on Sunday it was Thursday night he was alone in the house in the basement in the family room watching Jon Stewart he heard the front door open and people shuffling in and talking loudly he ran up the stairs and rounded the corner into the living room saying what happen I thought you guys were coming home Sunday? He found himself standing alone in the living room with the front door dead bolted and chained as he had left it. He told us the story on Sunday and moved out on Tuesday that same week. Even with celebrating Christmas holiday as they do in Peru where they are from which is celebrated from 12am till whenever he would not sleep over, I found myself driving him home at 4am! All of the science and analytical reasoning that is my nature "I am a computer IT person" doesn’t change it when you live with it the rest is Bull sh*t felt I had to share and don't bother to give me your theories I have run every possible scenario in my mind. By the way this isn't everything I will leave the rest for the novel. But I will add the craziest one that happen to my wife she was cooking in the summer kitchen and had just finished up and was carry a pot upstairs. She told my youngest son sitting on the couch down there to grab the pan off the stove he said okay. I was upstairs and she came into the dinning area, I said is there anything else that needs to come up? and she said no, I told Stefano to bring up the last pan. I said you told Stefano to bring up the pan? She said yes he said he is. So she walked over to the stairs and yelled down, Stefano the food is going to get cold and he came out of his room right off the dining area where I know he had been the entire time studying saying I'm here what's for diner? She looked at him and then down the steps and just closed the door leading to the basement she walked over to me and said he was downstairs on the couch and answered me he sounded just like Stefano yeah folks how f'ed up is that!




View attachment 679512View attachment 679513

I tried really hard to read what you wrote, but I gave up.

I don't know what you think those things in those pictures are, but it's camera oddities. That's all.
Orb (optics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rtslinger]

I tried really hard to read what you wrote, but I gave up.

I don't know what you think those things in those pictures are, but it's camera oddities. That's all.
Orb (optics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with the orb during a picture but what happens when you see something black hovering a few feet off the floor in front of you blacker than black fuzzy with a glowing ring around it the sizes of a softball with your own two freaking eyes and your kid is there with you and is looking at the same thing you are. No head, no tail not a mouse not a rat in the middle of your hard wood floor like a small dog and it does move away right away? No you stare at it long enough for your brain to say what the "F" and then he moves fast, blazely fast under a armorer off to your right. Your mind works it over, hard floor real, Armorer real, you and you kid real not, some camera trick caused by moister in the air on the lens, not when it looks like it is snowing out when you look at your security cameras outside and see

Wow. With those images I am now totally convinced!

What had I been thinking?

it isn't snowing it is fog all rationally explained away. But this thing in front you in your house it unfortunately is real too real! And yeah I guess I ramble on in writing this because it is nuts to me. It at times makes me dysfunctional things happen before going to my office that I keep hidden like witnessing a crime that you can't share with anyone. Carry on with your "normal" existence.