The Rickenbacker question

[Aberdumbie]

I played for years searching for the brightest, Steinway piano sound I could get. Basses amps and roundwounds and every combination therof. Now in my older years I am playing flats on a P. Low solid thump is me these days...... I think our tastes just change over time. And after all, variety is the spice of life. Not a bad thing for a bass player...... However I still have nightmares about the finish popping off your new Ric last year. That even hurt me and it wasn’t my bass!

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I like both, the grinding trebly clank, and the smooth bassy thump. What first impressed me about Squire was the fact that he had both going by bi-amping it, it almost sounds like double tracks playing in unison, which it may have been in some cases. In my case I was torn between taking up guitar or bass, and Squire's tone often seemed to bridge the two, particularly in the earlier recordings. He played other basses along the way, but that Ric tone is what he'll be remembered for. I always got the impression Mcartney was trying to get a Hofner sound out of his Ric, which he did quite handily.

 

[sunbeast]

One practical reason that alot of pros might have switched from Ric to Fender, and also the reason studio engineers often dislike them: Rics with Hi-Gains have that single polepiece per-string on each pickup, which puts out a very strong attack-transient that can wreak havoc on a recording or in a live situation without a compressor (or saturated tube amp!) or a careful touch- especially if you are plugged into a DI in either a live or studio situation (part of the reason Ric is often associated with strong "clank"). Fender Ps and Js have had the dual polepieces per string ever since the original single-coil P went out of production (the split-P with the dual-polepieces was allegedly designed specifically to protect against Fender amplifier warranty claims from blown speakers due to the transients put out by the earlier single polepiece design). The dual-poles act like a constant compressor, smoothing out the attack-transients. It seems like many of the Ric classic Ric players that kept using their Rics had Toaster pickups in the neck position (McCartney, Squire) or non-Ric pickups (Roger Glover and Cliff Burton, who of course both also used other basses).

 

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Play both!

 

[Teijo K.]

One practical reason that alot of pros might have switched from Ric to Fender, and also the reason studio engineers often dislike them: Rics with Hi-Gains have that single polepiece per-string on each pickup, which puts out a very strong attack-transient that can wreak havoc on a recording or in a live situation without a compressor (or saturated tube amp!) or a careful touch- especially if you are plugged into a DI in either a live or studio situation (part of the reason Ric is often associated with strong "clank"). Fender Ps and Js have had the dual polepieces per string ever since the original single-coil P went out of production (the split-P with the dual-polepieces was allegedly designed specifically to protect against Fender amplifier warranty claims from blown speakers due to the transients put out by the earlier single polepiece design). The dual-poles act like a constant compressor, smoothing out the attack-transients. It seems like many of the Ric classic Ric players that kept using their Rics had Toaster pickups in the neck position (McCartney, Squire) or non-Ric pickups (Roger Glover and Cliff Burton, who of course both also used other basses).

So thats why I like it so much. The pickups compensate my soft touch. And if I ever want to give another Fender a chance, it should be one of the reissued early P models.

 

[Korladis]

Geddy has proven that a Jazz can get a sound almost indistinguishable from a Ric, while offering an even wider palette of other sounds available. That, combined with a more comfortable body shape and narrow neck ... what's not to like? I think the versatility in sound is the biggest reason. Of course, it's all a matter of preference

One Jazz sound is close to one 4001/4003 sound. Both can get sounds that the other can't, though, due to their different pickup locations (a Jazz bass, in my opinion, basically can't sound like a 4003 with either pickup soloed, and a 4003 can't get the sound of the soloed bridge pickup on a Jazz because it doesn't have a pickup there).

 

[Teijo K.]

Geddy has proven that a Jazz can get a sound almost indistinguishable from a Ric, while offering an even wider palette of other sounds available. That, combined with a more comfortable body shape and narrow neck ... what's not to like? I think the versatility in sound is the biggest reason. Of course, it's all a matter of preference

Geddy has proven, that Geddy pretty much sounds like Geddy with every bass.

 

[Spectrum]

Another Ric video, by the incomparable (former?) TB'er Mark Walker demonstrating classic Ric tone, with no apparent use of effects, just good old fashioned pick and low action. I'm sure the old horse-shoe pups have something to do with that tone, but if anybody can find a P or J bass that sounds like this, please post it for comparison. The tone isn't necessarily better or worse than a Fender, but it's sure as hell different. An excellent argument for owning both!

That is a heavenly sound. Rics can do a lot of sounds besides that, but only a Ric can really do that specifically.

And look so cool while doing it, too.

 

[sunbeast]

So thats why I like it so much. The pickups compensate my soft touch. And if I ever want to give another Fender a chance, it should be one of the reissued early P models.

Yeah I like it too! But it can be touchy to record with a Ric depending on how its set-up and how "on" I am!

 

[woodyng2]

So thats why I like it so much. The pickups compensate my soft touch. And if I ever want to give another Fender a chance, it should be one of the reissued early P models.

My AVRI ‘57 Precision is the best Fender i’ve owned. It really has me gassing for one of the ‘63 RI P’s.

 

[woodyng2]

One Jazz sound is close to one 4001/4003 sound. Both can get sounds that the other can't, though, due to their different pickup locations (a Jazz bass, in my opinion, basically can't sound like a 4003 with either pickup soloed, and a 4003 can't get the sound of the soloed bridge pickup on a Jazz because it doesn't have a pickup there).

I have considered having this bass wired out of phase to get the scooped J sound.

 

[sunbeast]

View attachment 2825431
I have considered having this bass wired out of phase to get the scooped J sound.

Why out of phase? A J-bass has it's pickup's actual signals in-phase, but displays frequency-based phase-cancellation because of sensing harmonics at different points of the strings and slightly different timing. I think that you'd get the closest by installing some single-coil switches and choose either inner or outer coils (so you'd retain hum-cancelling with both on).

 

[bobyoung53]

I had A RIC 4001 back in the early 70's. never could really get onto it and sold it to get another p bass. I now have a p and a jazz but just tried a new ric 4003s out a month back and loved it so much I bought it. I realized from the push pull tone that lets you put the bass sucking capacitor back in the circuit that it was the reason I didn't like the old ric. With the cap in bypassed mode it sounds a lot like a jazz bass on steroids. I wished I would have known about that back then and I would just have removed the capacitor and would likely have kept the bass. I love the sound of the new rics now.

I bought my first one in 77 and sold it a few years later because of the cap, I can remember raising the bridge pickup way close to the strings trying to get some bottom out of it and it still never sounded right. I remember the first Ric I played without the cap, I think it was an 84 4003 (JH had them taken out mid 84) and it was like wow, where did all this bottom come from? I still didn't know why though until I read about it sometime around the year 2000 when I opened up my 4001 and bypassed the cap, what a difference!

 

[JMacBass65]

My question: have seen over the years many players go from established ric players(Glen Hughes, geddy lee) to playing fender basses. My question is why?

Fenders and other basses......

Mike Mills, Roger Glover, Tommy Stinson, Cliff Burton, Chris Squire......I'm sure there are others, this is just off the top of my head.

 

[woodyng2]

Why out of phase? A J-bass has it's pickup's actual signals in-phase, but displays frequency-based phase-cancellation because of sensing harmonics at different points of the strings and slightly different timing. I think that you'd get the closest by installing some single-coil switches and choose either inner or outer coils (so you'd retain hum-cancelling with both on).

I probably didn’t state that correctly,as i know next to nothing about electronix.
The Laredo in the picture does have coil taps on each pickup,though. (Push pull pots on each volume control).

 

[bobyoung53]

Fenders and other basses......

Mike Mills, Roger Glover, Tommy Stinson, Cliff Burton, Chris Squire......I'm sure there are others, this is just off the top of my head.

Most of those players who are still alive pull out the Ric here and there, I don't know that they are still a lot of dedicated Ric players around, many of us have them as another tool in our arsenal.

 

[JMacBass65]

Rics were designed more for looks than ergonomics.

No doubt I bought mine for looks primarily. The P and J I owned at the time looked too traditional for stage use for me at the time.

I love my Ric 4003's, but I would be a liar if I said a Jazz bass is not more comfortable and ergonomically friendly.

Agreed, but I adjust fairly quickly when I pick up my Rick.

Chuck Cote (The Reverse Engineers) has recently switched. He uses P-bass with bass amp to get some of the Rick low end. He was exclusively Rick for 20 years, and won't tell me why he switched. This video, in a nutshell, is why I switched:

Not this guy AGAIN!

if anybody can find a P or J bass that sounds like this, please post it for comparison.

Yeah, nothing sounds quite like that!

That d*@m cap. I wonder how many early rockers were put off Rics because of that cap? Geddy's probably had a nervous breakdown over wondering 'what if'?.

JH has done two things right with Rickenbacker 4001/3 basses. Put in standard truss rods and took out the d*@m cap.

Funny, when they started putting in the switchable modern/vintage pot is when I learned about the cap. I opened my '85 4003 and said "Ah ha! That's why I have never quite gotten the Rick tone I was looking for." So I wired IN a cap and switch - I use it cap in 90% of the time or more.

Most of those players who are still alive pull out the Ric here and there, I don't know that they are still a lot of dedicated Ric players around, many of us have them as another tool in our arsenal.

Well, not that I am on par with any of them, but I do the same. After I got my Rick, it was my primary live axe for about 5 years. Now I break it out only when I feel like changing things up a bit, or I'm feeling cranky and want to be somewhat "in your face". I remember using it as a subtle "FU" to a BL on my last gig with his band years ago. He was used to me playing a Jazz w/ flats, and I showed up at the gig with my Rick, strung w/ rounds. No doubt what came from my side of the stage that night was drastically different than what they were used to hearing. Although he was a big Beatles and Yes fan, so I don't think he picked up on any "message" I was trying to send. He thought it was cool. LOL!

 

[Spectrum]

With my current band, it's the Ric and only the Ric that comes out anymore. It's the only bass that gets the sound I need for this band.

My other basses get used for home practice, side projects, the odd jazz jam or open mic, etc. I do love the sound of a P bass, which my Jaguar will get handily, it's just not the right bass for the right job when it comes to my band right now.

Also, since I started using the Rick-o-sound stereo option, I'm pretty much addicted to the tone of my 4003. I might wire my Jaguar in stereo some day to serve as a back-up, and also because I'm really curious to see what the Jag is capable of with that set-up.

 

[MDBass]

A question I've had in mind for years. First off, i'm a lifelong fan of the rickenbacker 4001/4003 bass. The feel,especially the tone/ sound-- the "growl" if you will that cuts through & pronouces the notes/ chords while retaining the bass tone. My question: have seen over the years many players go from established ric players(Glen Hughes, geddy lee) to playing fender basses. My question is why?

The body shape of the 4001 is very uncomfortable seated in comparison.

Aside from that, big names frequently get free things to endorse large brands, so if they're able to get a similar sonic result with more comfort and more money...

 

[Gilmourisgod]

It always amazed me, back in the day, how few Ric players used the Ric-O-Sound. I mean ever. I get it, two amps, two speaker cabs, which back then meant heavy, but these days with class D micro amps and neodymium speakers, it seems like a no brainer. It really is the Secret Sauce, like two basses playing in unison if you EQ each setup differently. I used to run the treble pup through the guitarists spare 1x12, and bass Pup through my Peavey Mark III and 1x15.