The Short-Scale Six-String Club Part 2- for the original six-string basses!

[MIJ-VI]

For this kind of instrument you can use standard issue guitar parts. Standard tuners, jazzmaster tremelo, standard strat style pickups, they also borrowed the jazz bass control plate, and a roller bridge, as well as a strat selector instead of a jaguar plate like a Bass VI.

So they kept the cost down by not using any proprietary parts except for a new pickguard. All the hardware is off the shelf. That's the 'something', it probably plays and works as well as the original Fenders. The only thing I'm curious about is the pickups, they are supposed to be overwound in this kind of application.

I am mystified by the V-T-T setup on the 3 pickups model but I guess they had to put something in the extra jazz bass hole.

It would cost twice as much to build one of these on your own and take a solid week of work as well.

I guess I like the black one personally, simply because the control layout makes more sense there, and it's not trying to be a Bass VI necessarily.

It's likely the stock Strat wiring scheme: IIRC, a separate tone control each for the neck & mid pickups, and none for the bridge p/u.

I've got my fingers crossed that the new Agile Argus LPB has a RWRP mid pickup (for hum cancelling when used with the neck or bridge pickup).

Otherwise, IMO, they would have to be replaced which would bring the instrument's price up into the Schecter Hellcat VI range...

 

[Jjango]

I'm guessing they set them up with those because they are cheaper than the Fender Bass VI string set.

Something tells me it will intonate OK with the heavier gauge Fender strings

I wish I could be as optimistic as you lunar, but I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, the Link Removed that says "Setup to intonate with 24 34 44 56 72 84 gauge strings" is almost certainly a euphemism for "will not work with 25 35 45 55 75 95 gauge strings" – I mean, why else would they even add such a comment? It reads exactly like a disclaimer. When was the last time you saw an instrument sales blurb that specified using a specific string gauge?

If so, this really sucks. I was one of the chief contributors to the "it must have these features" discussion in part 1 of this thread, and I stated that the bass must have a Jaguar style tailpiece, specifically so the longer Fender VI strings could be used. If they can't be used, the tailpiece is completely useless.

If Kurt comes in and explicitly states that Fender VI strings can be used, I will 1., order an Argus on the spot, and 2., edit my posts to remove these negative statements I have made. But no Fender strings = floppy E = no sale, at least to me. Having waited for this Rondo VI from the very beginning, that would disappoint me quite a bit.

I don't have the discretionary funds right now, been dealing with cat medical bills recently. Bleh...

I'm very sorry to hear that lunar, I went through the same thing about two months ago with one of my cats. Here's wishing your kitty (and your pocketbook) the best of health.

 

[Showdown]

I guess I like the black one personally, simply because the control layout makes more sense there, and it's not trying to be a Bass VI necessarily.

I like the pickups on the black one better, but I like the looks of the LPB one better. I guess it is a good thing I don't have the money to buy one right now so I don't have to make that decision.....

 

[kenstee]

Seems like this new Rondo/Argus uses the same string gauge scheme as the infamous Burns Barracuda..by the way they more or less say that proper intonation is nearly imposssible on the bass strings.

http://www.trevormidgley.com/BurnsGuitars/SGBarracuda.html

I agree that string gauge is an issue with this new entry. Obviously, they did not nail (or choose not to spend the funds for parts/design, etc.)

Or perhaps they are positioning this instrument more in the guitar than bass space. As such, the narrower gauge strings are more "guitarist-friendly" and familiar. For me this is a strike against this one from the get-go. Like those deeper bass EAD's. YMMV.

 

[lunarpollen]

I don't have trouble with intonation on my Barracuda. Sure, it can be tricky intonating the low E but it's typical for a short-scale bass.

I would hope the LPB one has a RWRP middle pickup, isn't that standard for Strat-type guitars? I know my Barracuda is that way, but that's standard for the three-pickup Burns Tri-Sonics set.

Jjango, I too am a little wary of their statement about those strings, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, I think they are just trying to tell what strings it comes strung with, for those people who might be confused about or unfamiliar with bass VI-type instruments

About my cat, yeah he's doing better, but I had to put my previous cat to sleep a month ago (he had incurable heart disease and it was his time to go). My new cat was suffering from explosive diarrhea but seems to be better now. He has another followup vet appointment this afternoon.

I wonder, if intonation actually IS an issue with the standard Fender string set, would slanting the bridge (keeping the same position for the treble side post, but filling the hole on the bass side and drilling a new one a couple mm further back) be feasible to give a few extra mm of adjustment to the low E saddle, or would that throw off string spacing too much? Not sure how the geometry works, but I bet it could be calculated on paper, it might only make string spacer tighter near the bride by a fraction of a mm or something...

 

[Showdown]

I wonder, if intonation actually IS an issue with the standard Fender string set, would slanting the bridge (keeping the same position for the treble side post, but filling the hole on the bass side and drilling a new one a couple mm further back) be feasible to give a few extra mm of adjustment to the low E saddle, or would that throw off string spacing too much? Not sure how the geometry works, but I bet it could be calculated on paper, it might only make string spacer tighter near the bride by a fraction of a mm or something...

The Hellcat is slanted a little and works great. It doesn't affect the string spacing at all.

I wonder if it would be hard to replace the bridge on the Agile with the wider Bass VI bridge?

 

[lunarpollen]

I imagine since these new Agiles are due to customer request, that the quantity manufactured was probably fairly small. Maybe if they sell well, they will make a greater amount to meet future demand, and the price will come down a bit, and more colors will be available. Just a thought. Not that I think they are too expensive or anything right now. I still intend to buy one or both of them as soon as I can.

 

[kenstee]

Still suspicious of the very low price on these. Especially given that this was a relatively more expensive (from the manufacturer's POV) limited-run. Something has to have been sacrificed to produce these at this retail price. And I'm sure these weren't made to be a loss-leader.

 

[lunarpollen]

Are they really that low in comparison to their other offerings?

 

[kenstee]

I think they are just trying to tell what strings it comes strung with, for those people who might be confused about or unfamiliar with bass VI-type instruments

Have a hard time believing this. I think it's more of a head's up/disclosure /"lawyer's talk" that these are the only strings they deem appropriate for this instrument - or - worse - that the instrument can only accommodate this gauge. I've NEVER seen this type of very explicit language vis-a-vis proper intonation with only a very specific gauge - with any other guitar/bass that I can think of. Something's fishy. They are implying that proper intonation is not to be expected with other gauges. Or perhaps use of a different gauge may void the warranty? This is no coincidence. All this ad and promotional language carefully goes through legal vetting and approval. This is all too bizarre and abnormal. Something's up with all of this. Me? I wouldn't consider buying this instrument until all of this is cleared up and fully disclosed by the manufacturer. They need to step forward and clear the air.

Think about it...only one manufacturer (D’Addario) has this gauge as a stock set - and BTW it is nickle-wound not stainless steel. The others, Fender, Schecter, GHS, etc. all are .025>.095.

 

[kenstee]

Are they really that low in comparison to their other offerings?

Well, the Hellcat VI goes for roughly $599 these days at retail. Not sure about the Gretsch, etc. which in my view are more in the baritone space than the Fender VI space like the Hellcat VI and the Barracuda.

 

[Jjango]

Have a hard time believing this. I think it's more of a head's up/disclosure /"lawyer's talk" that these are the only strings they deem appropriate for this instrument - or - worse - that the instrument can only accommodate this gauge. I've NEVER seen this type of very explicit language vis-a-vis proper iintonation with only a very specific gauge - with any other guitar/bass that I can think of. Something's fishy. They are implying that proper intonation is not to be expected with other gauges. Or perhaps use of a different gauge may void the warranty? This is no coincidence. All this ad and promotional language carefully goes through legal vetting and approval. This is all too bizarre and abnormal. Something's up with all of this. Me? I wouldn't consider buying this instrument until all of this is cleared up and fully disclosed by the manufacturer. They need to step forward and clear the air.

Think about it...only one manufacturer (D'Adario) has this gauge as a stock set - and BTW it is nickle-wound not stainless steel. The others, Fender, Schecter, GHS, etc. all are .025>.095.

I'm so glad I'm not the only doubter here – I was beginning to feel like the village rain-on-the-parade-r.

 

[no1likesme]

Well, the Hellcat VI goes for roughly $599 these days at retail. Not sure about the Gretsch, etc. which in my view are more in the baritone space than the Fender VI space like the Hellcat VI and the Barracuda.

I would think that the gretsch would be in the same class as all the others, It comes from the factory tuned E-e. It is selling for $524.99 on musiciansfriend right now.

 

[kslight]

Wow kind of caught me off guard there...!


I sent Kurt an email...will see when he gets back what the deal is on the 24-84s...

SINCE I DON'T KNOW because I've never tried...how does the 24-84 feel vs. 25-95? I'm tempted to say that "at this price" I don't really care if 25-95 doesn't work (or if it has to be modified). But if it will take them then there's nothing holding me back from ordering the one with toasters...

I would have preferred a "not blue" 3 pickup Argus but at this price then the black with toasters will do just fine I think.

Other than the "not sure about blue" part, I think the look and features are right on...dependent on the outcome of the string gauges...for this price I'm not sure that that is really a deal breaker. The headstock doesn't look bad...certainly not Hellcat bad. I mean for $400 you can't really complain, and I'm sure once Kurt sells a round of these then he'll take suggestions (he did say this to me before), but those will OBVIOUSLY come at a price hike. As soon as Kurt sends me back an email I will probably order one, even if no one else will. At $400 the guitar is different enough from my Hellcat to justify having a second on hand...so I can try lighter strings if nothing else, a vibrato...single coils...just being a functional backup even.

 

[kslight]

- The back of the pick-guard is NOT shielded and the pickup & control cavities are treated with inadequate carbon paint. A thorough copper tape shielding job is in order.

I shielded my Hellcat after getting it too...clean there's not a buzz at all tapped or not, and with gain its still relatively quiet...

 

[Showdown]

Wow kind of caught me off guard there...!


I sent Kurt an email...will see when he gets back what the deal is on the 24-84s...

SINCE I DON'T KNOW because I've never tried...how does the 24-84 feel vs. 25-95? I'm tempted to say that "at this price" I don't really care if 25-95 doesn't work (or if it has to be modified). But if it will take them then there's nothing holding me back from ordering the one with toasters...

I used to have a Danelectro VI that was made for 24-84 strings, and 25-95 worked just fine (other than it had a wooden saddle that could only be tilted so that intonation adjustment could not be done for individual strings - intonation was always approximate regardless of the string gauge), so I suspect it would be fine on the Agile too. Hopefully someone will buy one and let us know....

 

[kslight]

Hopefully someone will buy one and let us know....

Armed and ready just waiting for Kurt to check his email..!

 

[kslight]

BTW, what's with the 12 string fretless guitar (click on "New Items and Specials")? That's kind of bogus to me...does anyone have a use for that? I'm not judging I'm just curious because I don't think I could handle that thing enough to be thinking to myself all day "Will something like this ever come out...?".

 

[kenstee]

Consider this......... On their site they often say in the specs for many of their quite honestly mostly cheapo knockoffs that: "D’Addario strings are installed at the factory. " Personally, I don't think I've ever read specs for a guitar/bass where they made the string manufacturer a selling point. Would choice of pre-installed string brand ever impact your purchase decision? Yeah, me neither, it is laughable. But, perhaps not to the price-conscious consumer they are targeting most of their products towards. For them it might be a bigger deal. They don't however have a point about using D’Addario on this one.

Stay with me here.......What is probably going on is they have an exclusivity agreement (worth considerable $s) with D’Addario to feature their strings. That's fine. Odd, yes, but fine with me. BUT...is it a coincidence that D’Addario is the ONLY manufacturer of stock .24>.84 strings for this type of instrument? NO WAY!

Hypothesis...I will lay money that the tail is wagging the dog here. Their co-op deal (which may in fact be an exclusivity deal) with D’Addario is driving Rondo's choice of string gauge for this instrument. Why else would they choose to go with essentially a non-industry standard? And then make a major deal of it on their product specs.

The key question then is if the instrument is designed to properly function - with no significant alterations - with gauges aside from 24-84 and the guitar is structurally suitable to go with heavier gauges. That one question will be need to be answered by Rondo with no ifs, ands or buts.

Let's hope this is mostly a marketing BS exercise between Rondo and D’Addario. However, it is possible that given the all too obvious marketing agreement between Rondo and D’Addario AND the fact that this is a more cheaply made instrument it may be that it is what it is....suitable only for 24-84. We'll see..........But, as of right the language they use looks, smells and feels like a legal disclaimer.

 

[Showdown]

Consider this......... On their site they often say in the specs for many of their quite honestly mostly cheapo knockoffs that: "D’Addario strings are installed at the factory. " Personally, I don't think I've ever read specs for a guitar/bass where they made the string manufacturer a selling point. Would choice of pre-installed string brand ever impact your purchase decision? Yeah, me neither, it is laughable. But, perhaps not to the price-conscious consumer they are targeting most of their products towards. For them it might be a bigger deal.

Stay with me here.......What is probably going on is they have an exclusivity agreement (worth considerable $s) with D’Addario to feature their strings. That's fine. Odd, yes, but fine with me. BUT...is it a coincidence that D’Addario is the ONLY manufacturer of stock .24>.84 strings for this type of instrument? NO WAY!

Hypothesis...I will lay money that the tail is wagging the dog here. Their co-op deal (which may in fact be an exclusivity deal) with D’Addario is driving Rondo's choice of string gauge for this instrument. Why else would they choose to go with essentially a non-industry standard? And then make a major deal of it on their product specs.

The key question then is if the instrument is designed to properly function - with no significant alterations - with gauges aside from 24-84 and the guitar is structurally suitable to go with heavier gauges. That one question will be need to be answered by Rondo with no ifs, ands or buts.

Let's hope this is mostly a marketing BS exercise between Rondo and D’Addario. However, it is possible that given the all too obvious marketing agreement between Rondo and D’Addario AND the fact that this is a more cheaply made instrument it may be that it is what it is....suitable only for 24-84. We'll see..........

If I had the money I wouldn't hesitate to buy one and put heavier strings on it. If I could put the heavier gauge strings on the thin cheaply built Danelectro neck with no issues I am certain it would be fine with this bass. That is what they make truss rods for. The only issue I can see would be with intonation on the E string. And as long as it plays in tune up to the 10th fret on the E I'm fine. I don't play the E string any higher than that anyway.