The Sushi Box FX Secret Society

[Clark W]

Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I saw your email from this afternoon and just responded. We'll get you taken care of.

I appreciate it. I figured I was out of warranty anyway. And it's probably my fault. Everyone says One Spots are fine. But I have had two fail on me which is why I spent the money on Cioks for my power supply stuff. And I also want to add a Single Slice Compressor. The "More" was the best thing I have ever done when it comes to pedals / tone / sound.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I appreciate it. I figured I was out of warranty anyway. And it's probably my fault. Everyone says One Spots are fine. But I have had two fail on me which is why I spent the money on Cioks for my power supply stuff. And I also want to add a Single Slice Compressor. The "More" was the best thing I have ever done when it comes to pedals / tone / sound.

There's no such thing as out of warranty. If I built it, I'm going to be responsible for it.

 

[Jakeman]

There's no such thing as out of warranty. If I built it, I'm going to be responsible for it.

Business principles - 10/10

 

[Clark W]

There's no such thing as out of warranty. If I built it, I'm going to be responsible for it.

That's a rare trait to see in a world that is made up of disposable stuff these days. Thank you!

 

[davelowell2]

There's no such thing as out of warranty. If I built it, I'm going to be responsible for it.

This is true. I bought a used SushiBox that’s not behaving and Nathan is in the process of fixing it. I really appreciate that in a company.

I’ve had one pedal company tell me to pound sand, send it back the seller, can’t fix discontinued pedals, etc…. I don’t buy their stuff anymore.

 

[LowWay]

I have most of my pedal money tied up in 3 companies: sushi, source audio, noble. All of them feature outstanding tech/user/product support. Everything else on my boards is disposable in my mind.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I’ve had one pedal company tell me to pound sand, send it back the seller, can’t fix discontinued pedals, etc…. I don’t buy their stuff anymore.

I didn't go to business school or anything, but that seems like a weird way to run a business that relies on customers.

 

[davelowell2]

I didn't go to business school or anything, but that seems like a weird way to run a business that relies on customers.

lol, I didn’t, either, and I couldn’t believe it.

 

[Tassieviking]

20 years ago I worked at repairing household appliances for a while, most companies charged a fortune for spare parts for washing machines so we used LG spare parts for most repairs where we could. LG charged us just above the cost of making the part, LG wanted to become the No1 company and they thought it was wrong to charge customers when their parts should not have broken down to start with.
Most water pumps in washing machines and dish washer are generic and can be swapped between brands, also heating elements in ovens etc.
LG charged us $7 for a simple pump motor and some other companies would charge over $100 for their brand even though they were most likely made in the same factory. I learnt a lot in those 5 years about domestic appliances and how many appliances are identical with just a different fascia panel to show the different brand name. I fixed a $25,000 refrigerator with parts from a $2,000 refrigerator, they were different brands but used all the same working parts inside and were made by the same factory. The brand name cost an extra $23,000 dollars and people paid it to have the brand on their fridge.

 

[jbybj]

There's no such thing as out of warranty. If I built it, I'm going to be responsible for it.

It’s a good thing I’m notably older than you. Assuming once you die you’ll be unable to offer repairs.

 

[bucephylus]

Well after owning my "More" for a year and half, it crapped out
It was such a great pedal too, one of the best and definitely my fav of all time.

The worst part about it, I bought a Cioks DC7 and Crux to power my board with so I could get the "More" off of a One Spot. Put my board together with Cioks stuff, played for about an hour with no problems. Packed up and headed out for a gig. 2 hours into the gig and all of a sudden a couple of popping noises and I lost a good bit of my signal as well. I cut the "More" off and the signal was fine after that I kept on trucking for about another hour of playing.

It had been acting up for a month or two. I would start getting random popping noises after about an hour of playing, cut the "More" off and everything would go back to normal. I was hoping it was the One Spot causing the issue. And when I swapped over to the Cioks power supply and Crux converter and played for a couple of hours with no problems I thought I was good to go and then "poof", it was all over but the crying, cut the "More" off and kept on playing with no "More" problems. Have played about another 4 hours since last Friday without the "More" and no signal issues or popping noises at all. Matter of fact I got another hour in today with a new Boss GE-7 EQ pedal that I put on the board today, everything else working as it should be. Matter of fact, the board over all is working really, really well since I yanked the "More" out of the equation.

The Boss GE-7 is now where the "More" was in this pic at the end of FX Loop 1

View attachment 7345357

FWIW, I power my More using the CIOKS 8800 Parallel Adapter and two supply channels to ensure that the tubes are getting sufficient amperage.

 

[MattyE27888]

Does anyone know which tube is in the Underground Accelerator?

 

[Sushi Box FX]

It’s a good thing I’m notably older than you. Assuming once you die you’ll be unable to offer repairs.

I'm hoping by that point at least one of my kids will be able to take things over, still a bit early for that though. My youngest (currently 7 y.o.) shows the most interest at the moment, but, you know, she's 7.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Does anyone know which tube is in the Underground Accelerator?

The stock tube is a JJ Electronics ECC83 (12AX7).

 

[MattyE27888]

The stock tube is a JJ Electronics ECC83 (12AX7).

Do different tube types give different flavours or is that designed primarily for that pedal?

 

[bassbrad]

There has been a good bit of discussion on this, there ought to be a FAQ sticky on this if there isn't already. Different tubes offer lower gain structures for a wider range for saturation or clean tones. I prefer a JJ 12AX7MG for my fretless basses and guitars for the enhanced mid range and altered gain pattern. FWIW I have tried tube rolling to different values as well as some NOS tubes but have decided to stay with the JJ 12AX7 as that was what @Sushi Box FX used to voice the pedal. YMMV as always.

AI Overview

+3

Tube gain, or mu, is a measure of a vacuum tube's amplification capability, with common examples like the high-gain 12AX7 (gain factor ~100), the medium-gain 12AT7 (~60), and the low-gain 12AU7 (~20). These values indicate how much voltage amplification a tube can provide, with higher mu values resulting in more gain and lower mu values offering more headroom and a potentially cleaner sound. The actual gain in a circuit can be lower than the specified mu due to the effects of other components like plate and cathode resistors.

Common tube gain values

• 12AX7: High gain, with a gain factor of approximately 100.
  
  
• 5751: High gain, with a gain factor of approximately 70, making it a lower-gain substitute for a 12AX7.
  
  
• 12AT7: Medium gain, with a gain factor of around 60.
  
  
• 12AY7: Lower gain than a 12AX7, with a gain factor of approximately 70.
  
  
• 12AU7: Low gain, with a gain factor of around 20.

 

[rickdog]

I've done limited tube rolling in my UA. I swapped in a vintage* 12AU7, didn't like it. I tried a JJ ECC803S (long-plate version of ECC83, very slightly lower gain) and liked that so much I stopped at that point. To my ear it has more compression and a gentler, more pleasing onset of distortion.

The gain factor is the most visible and accessible tube characteristic, but there are others that matter as well, like the plate resistance. Plate resistance affects how the tube interacts with the load it is driving. And different types of tubes have different ranges of input voltage over which they operate, which affects how much nonlinearity they have in a circuit. Don't forget that "they don't make 'em like they used to" and characteristics from one tube to another of the same type can be significant - just because you don't like one JJ ECC83 you tried doesn't mean that you won't like another one from a different manufacturing lot.

Some tube circuits are designed to be very tolerant of variations between tubes and tube rolling won't produce obvious results. This can be a good thing for a manufacturer that wants to mass-produce amps with a consistent sound.

My intuition is that Sushi Box FX circuits are not designed that way, and that trying different tubes can yield different sounds. I base this on things I've read here in the Secret Society as well as my personal experience.

So try some different tubes! Don't spend lot of money on NO$. Maybe you have other tube gear and can swap some around... maybe you have a guitarist friend who has a stash... decent brand new ones can be had for about $25. Stick to the types @bassbrad conveniently listed and you won't hurt anything (assuming you use appropriate care swapping them).

* "vintage" means I inherited it and have no clue what its history is

 

[havnjero]

I've done limited tube rolling in my UA. I swapped in a vintage* 12AU7, didn't like it. I tried a JJ ECC803S (long-plate version of ECC83, very slightly lower gain) and liked that so much I stopped at that point. To my ear it has more compression and a gentler, more pleasing onset of distortion.

The gain factor is the most visible and accessible tube characteristic, but there are others that matter as well, like the plate resistance. Plate resistance affects how the tube interacts with the load it is driving. And different types of tubes have different ranges of input voltage over which they operate, which affects how much nonlinearity they have in a circuit. Don't forget that "they don't make 'em like they used to" and characteristics from one tube to another of the same type can be significant - just because you don't like one JJ ECC83 you tried doesn't mean that you won't like another one from a different manufacturing lot.

Some tube circuits are designed to be very tolerant of variations between tubes and tube rolling won't produce obvious results. This can be a good thing for a manufacturer that wants to mass-produce amps with a consistent sound.

My intuition is that Sushi Box FX circuits are not designed that way, and that trying different tubes can yield different sounds. I base this on things I've read here in the Secret Society as well as my personal experience.

So try some different tubes! Don't spend lot of money on NO$. Maybe you have other tube gear and can swap some around... maybe you have a guitarist friend who has a stash... decent brand new ones can be had for about $25. Stick to the types @bassbrad conveniently listed and you won't hurt anything (assuming you use appropriate care swapping them).

* "vintage" means I inherited it and have no clue what its history is

agree 100%
well worded.

 

[JackFawkes]

• 12AY7: Lower gain than a 12AX7, with a gain factor of approximately 70.

Correction: 12AY7 has a gain factor of approximately 40.
(12AY7 is one of my favorites along with 5751)

Jack

EDIT: Added some interesting (though very technical) charts that I often reference.

 

[bucephylus]

Regarding tube choices, some of that depends on your tonal goals. I like my tube preamps to have some amount of clean depth, and do not go for distortion.

The Sushi Box preamps I have been using seem to benefit in minimizing distortion by using 5751’s in place of the 12AX7’s. This has been true of the UA, the PMLE, and the Venus Z.

For the More, the pedal behaves best for my prefs with a 5751 in the Output position, but leaving the 12AT7 in the Input position. Again, minimizing tube breakup.

YMMV / FWIW