The Sushi Box FX Secret Society

[cavemanbass]

So 12AX7 will never glow as brightly as 6N21B, as the brightness of the filament is a reflection of how much current they pull, and 12AX7 pulls much less than other tubes. Some brands do glow brighter than others. I know for JJ/Tesla you have to look at the tube from just the right angle to see the glowing filament, other brands I would imagine being similar. I have a couple NOS tubes where the filaments are pretty well concealed by other parts of the tube and you can't really see the glow at all. If the tube wasn't heating up then it wouldn't pass signal.


Alright, so this ties in nicely to a discussion @Sonicblaze and I were having earlier today. We were discussing different modifications that would drop the output level of the pedal to a more usable range. Lowering the value of R12 and/or raising the value of R23 would certainly do it as this would re-bias the las gain stage and make it drive less hard. It would most certainly work, and since we're not touching the tonestack or the other two gain stages I'm sure it would keep that beautiful Hiwatt tone. But changing the bias on the gain stage has a big part in the tone, which brings me to the same question I asked between LA-1A and Deep Dish: is this being EXACTLY the Dr103 preamp important, or is it being "inspired by Dr103" and having the general Hiwatt flavor while being more usable as a stompbox important? My personal opinion is that the latter is more important, which is obviously why my "based on LA-1A" compressor has 2 tubes and no boost, but obviously I'm not the one that buys most of my pedals (though I still do "gift" myself one or two a month).

If I were given free rein to do what I want (which I technically am, I just really want to keep as many people happy as possible, which is why I'm on here daily finding out what you guys like and don't like) I would remove the third gain stage altogether. This would check all the boxes for me:

• Lower output level
• Master volume would go at the very end of the circuit
• Drops to a single tube pedal which means less space, less power required, and lower price
• Currently nobody has been using 100% of the gain available anyway because it's too damn loud
• Two gain stages allow plenty of gain anyway, and it will still drive heavier than PA or LU

I'm still going to try the mods to make it work better as-is, but it also wouldn't be very difficult to mod it to bypass the last gain stage, so I plan to try that out as well. If I like how it sounds I'll get a clip or two so you can hear it and see what you think. Again just my opinion on how I think it would work well, what does everyone else think?

I would prefer having complete control of the output, as long as the Hiwatt flavor is still in there. Lower power consumption is a nice bonus. I don’t see the value in having a gain stage that is always turned down to the point of adding no gain anyways.
Thank you Sushi-San for considering our input!

 

[1983L2000]

The character of the dirt in the demos is what attracted me. If that is not achievable with the loss of gain that would be problem for me. Sounds like maybe that won’t be an issue.

I share that opinion as well, but had the impression that the master volume did affect tone, which may probably be due to that last gain stage?

 

[1983L2000]

I would prefer having complete control of the output, as long as the Hiwatt flavor is still in there. Lower power consumption is a nice bonus. I don’t see the value in having a gain stage that is always turned down to the point of adding no gain anyways.
Thank you Sushi-San for considering our input!

You can turn it up (ok, never got it close to 100%) and it sounds great, it’s just well above unity so you can’t use it as an on/off effect. But as always on, it’s splendid. I hope indeed that the last stage doesn’t have much to do with that.

 

[cavemanbass]

You can turn it up (ok, never got it close to 100%) and it sounds great, it’s just well above unity so you can’t use it as an on/off effect. But as always on, it’s splendid. I hope indeed that the last stage doesn’t have much to do with that.

Understood, and if I’m the only one asking for unity then I would be ok to pay to have my dr Wattson modded or substitute a different pedal (I’m in the April run, no rush). Fitting into my signal chain is more important to me than adherence to every detail of the original schematic. I’m confident that Sushi-San will preserve the character of the Hiwatt tone.

 

[kranahan]

I’m wiring up the board today. I needed some help from my youngest though. By the way, the Deep Dish fits! Happy Valentines Day everyone!

 

[labeledbass]

You can turn it up (ok, never got it close to 100%) and it sounds great, it’s just well above unity so you can’t use it as an on/off effect. But as always on, it’s splendid. I hope indeed that the last stage doesn’t have much to do with that.

Yeah I'm able to use the level on a Studio Boost to lower the volume enough to where these settings work, do you notice a little jump in volume right past where my volume/master is set at? That's where it seems things get out of control, im going to try some different methods of padding, direct into my interface padded, at line level, passive volume pedal, and some other buffered inputs I can attenuate. Also going to run it darn straight into the PS2 attenuator, I should have very solid headroom with that, unfortunately I don't want to run it all the time I use the pedal... I will add this, 12 volts is OK for this correct? I wonder if that makes anything more manageable, I only have 9v at the moment. If I notice no notable changes with the tone with the volume pedal (will have to check the values, its an oldy) I'm willing to just tap into the output before the jack and put some resistance there, unless there is something I'm missing that will change drastically by doing so.

 

[1983L2000]

Yeah I'm able to use the level on a Studio Boost to lower the volume enough to where these settings work, do you notice a little jump in volume right past where my volume/master is set at? That's where it seems things get out of control, im going to try some different methods of padding, direct into my interface padded, at line level, passive volume pedal, and some other buffered inputs I can attenuate. Also going to run it darn straight into the PS2 attenuator, I should have very solid headroom with that, unfortunately I don't want to run it all the time I use the pedal... I will add this, 12 volts is OK for this correct? I wonder if that makes anything more manageable, I only have 9v at the moment. If I notice no notable changes with the tone with the volume pedal (will have to check the values, its an oldy) I'm willing to just tap into the output before the jack and put some resistance there, unless there is something I'm missing that will change drastically by doing so.
View attachment 4167330

That's basically the settings I have on mine - eq included. And yes, below that volume, the tone is muffled (even amplified downstream), and above jumps to "loud", requiring serious padding dowstream. Tried the SB too - it seemed to work but to be honest I didn't have enough time at rehearsal to really determine if the passive volume did not suck out tone - I have impatient band members... I'm sure the Fryette will work, I didn't bother to try because it's hooked up to guitar cabinets at the moment, and I'm certainly not lugging it around just to enable a pedal - might as well lug a proper tube amp

I'm really tempted by a saturnworks either passive 100k or active bass volume micro pedal - but it will take pedalboard estate. If you try a volume pedal, or a resistor just before the jack, I will actually wait for your feedback before I do anything!

 

[1983L2000]

Understood, and if I’m the only one asking for unity then I would be ok to pay to have my dr Wattson modded or substitute a different pedal (I’m in the April run, no rush). Fitting into my signal chain is more important to me than adherence to every detail of the original schematic. I’m confident that Sushi-San will preserve the character of the Hiwatt tone.

Agreed 100% - judging by pedalboard screenshots, I'm sure we're not the only ones for which fitting into the signal chain, and therefore unity, is important.

 

[gh0st42]

I’m wiring up the board today. I needed some help from my youngest though. By the way, the Deep Dish fits! Happy Valentines Day everyone!

View attachment 4167246

If you need to make room, there’s a few things on there I’d take of your hands to “help out”! LOL

 

[1983L2000]

If you need to make room, there’s a few things on there I’d take of your hands to “help out”! LOL

I’m wiring up the board today. I needed some help from my youngest though. By the way, the Deep Dish fits! Happy Valentines Day everyone!

View attachment 4167246

I would dibs power stage and archetype, but you probably have a half dozen called already...

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I share that opinion as well, but had the impression that the master volume did affect tone, which may probably be due to that last gain stage?

Correct, master volume is before the last gain stage, so it acts as an intermediate gain control for how much signal will be hitting the input of the last stage.

Yeah I'm able to use the level on a Studio Boost to lower the volume enough to where these settings work, do you notice a little jump in volume right past where my volume/master is set at? That's where it seems things get out of control, im going to try some different methods of padding, direct into my interface padded, at line level, passive volume pedal, and some other buffered inputs I can attenuate. Also going to run it darn straight into the PS2 attenuator, I should have very solid headroom with that, unfortunately I don't want to run it all the time I use the pedal... I will add this, 12 volts is OK for this correct? I wonder if that makes anything more manageable, I only have 9v at the moment. If I notice no notable changes with the tone with the volume pedal (will have to check the values, its an oldy) I'm willing to just tap into the output before the jack and put some resistance there, unless there is something I'm missing that will change drastically by doing so.
View attachment 4167330

Dr. Wattson can absolutely run at 12V, but the voltages being provided to the tube (6.3V and 200V) will be the same regardless of supply voltage, so it won't likely change anything.

 

[krfoss]

Am I incorrect in reading/ understanding that Space Heater (or was it the Westinghouse) is essentially the Particle Accelerator without the EQ options? Did I dream this?

 

[fivestringgecko]

Am I incorrect in reading/ understanding that Space Heater (or was it the Westinghouse) is essentially the Particle Accelerator without the EQ options? Did I dream this?

You're thinking of the Space Heater... @Sushi Box FX confirmed a few pages back.

5sg.

So the Westinghouse is more of a flavor enhancer for what pedals/amps/preamps that are in your chain already (MSG if you will)? Whereas the Space Heater has it's own distinct flavor?

I'd say this completely nails it.

How much of the Space Heater is a Particle Accelerator without a tonestack?

Almost all of it. There is a little piece London Underground has that keeps it from freaking out when treble and gain are both cranked, which is the only complaint I've ever had on PA, I added that into Space Heater. But aside from that it basically is PAX without a tonestack.

 

[1983L2000]

thats what I thought, you have it regulated, only benefits the current draw at the power supply correct?
Well, tested this - I'm not sure about the resistance but a volume pedal, post wattson pedal, allows you to run the master/volume at 100%, BUT the change in resistance on the back end doesn't allow the gain stage, gain and/or volume, start to drive and breakup. I get better drive simply keeping the volume/master very low and adjusting the gain accordingly. I think to so something on the back end, a step down transformer would fix this, but that's beyond my pay grade and I don't get paid much.. the tone sounds great honestly the way it is, but again I haven't heard the last stage at its best, yet. Getting the attenuator out next, will truly see if there's a difference or not, if not I'd be good leaving the volume put and just adjusting the gain accordingly. I'm having some other gremlins but will work that out later.
View attachment 4167459 View attachment 4167460

Do you know if your EB volume pedal is the 25k or 250k version?

 

[labeledbass]

Do you know if your EB volume pedal is the 25k or 250k version?

Disregard, replying to your message I just realized I put the dang volume pedal before the wattson.... I'll edit the above to reflect and retest. I feel stupid lol, long nights and newborns... I always put it in front. The pedal is from 96, I'll have to get my meter out to tell exactly what's the resistance but let me switch these things around

 

[labeledbass]

Do you know if your EB volume pedal is the 25k or 250k version?

I'll check when I get home, I did try the volume pedal after the Watson and it does work beautifully, I can't have Unity gain though, but besides that you can take advantage of both stages, it's really cool the last stage, volume acts a little like a power stage mixing with the other

 

[1983L2000]

I'll check when I get home, I did try the volume pedal after the Watson and it does work beautifully, I can't have Unity gain though, but besides that you can take advantage of both stages, it's really cool the last stage, volume acts a little like a power stage mixing with the other

Excellent, thanks!

 

[Btbp]

Wah!!! Hope we don't have too many of these.

I'd rather not see this thread degenerate into a ton of 'much ado about nothing' posts like you see in some effects threads. Fun is fun. But it's been done...and done...and done...and done...elsewhere. It was funny and cute at first. But it's gotten kinda old IMO.

View attachment 4166625

+1

 

[Kelly robinson]

When you’re dealing with breakfast porn to keep folks engaged in the thread - it kinda pales a bit compared to the current content here about efforts to reduce the Dr Watson gain structure - even when you ( meaning me ! ) don’t really understand everything being said .... Kelly

+1

 

[40Hz]

When you’re dealing with breakfast porn to keep folks engaged in the thread - it kinda pales a bit compared to the current content here about efforts to reduce the Dr Watson gain structure - even when you ( meaning me ! ) don’t really understand everything being said .... Kelly

Truer words!

Of course it always helps that the main man is actively engaged and regularly participating in a thread about his pedals like Nathan is.