Just wanted to drop a little PSA here that I have a V1 Black Eye for sale in the Classifieds. Sale preferred, but will trade for a MORE.
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The Sushi Box FX Secret Society
- Thread starter kranahan
- Start date
The sonic character improvement of the MORE may seem subtle at first but once heard it is unmistakable. In my recording setup through my reference monitors or headphones there is a bit of added dimension and clarity afforded by the uber-clean parallel tube stages. To my ear it is very much like a studio tube Mic preamp than a guitar amp gain stage which all of the other @Sushi Box FX pedals are based on.* If your needs are for a super clean preamp with depth then the MORE may be a great choice, many of my clients want crispy clean bass parts and the MORE gives me that.
* There is a common practice in many studios to record bass using vintage studio gear from Mic pre amps, compressors and EQs to utilize the qualities of the input, output circuitry and stages that often include parallel gain and buffer stages as well as transformers even if the effect is bypassed as @Sushi Box FX has done with the MORE. Thanks to Invalid Link Removed we have that in a 9v powered pedal board friendly form.
That to me is the unique beauty of the MORE, that getting those 4 stages of beautiful pristine tube goodness in a 9v powered single sized pedal is a freaking miracle for little more than 2 Benjamins, where before it was only found in 2 to 3 space 19" racked studio gear like mic preamps and compressors.
Yes but here we run into what is the precise definition of saturation in this context. If you push the input you can get a nice warm squish that is nice with dynamic playing while the normal level is a tube clarity and detail.
I am really loving the level of detail that the MORE is bringing out in each of my basses and nuances in my technique and it is also a bit intimidating.
What’s the Difference Between Distortion and Saturation? — Sage Audio
Saturation - Wikipedia
Subtle is not a word I'd use in describing MORE, but it is so hard to describe the affect almost like Umami once you taste it you know what it is, and you miss it when it isn’t there.
MORE is the King of Tone like MSG is the King of Flavor!
Good, very good, 100x very good. Or as Uncle Roger might say...
That's certainly a glowing review! And where do you place the More in your chain? A lot of people here said to put it at the end, but I seem to prefer it going into my Genzler preamp, rather than coming after it. I'm still trying to figure out if "I'm wrong". 
Just checking, since you got such great results.
Just checking, since you got such great results.
I have the MORE on my recording board but the position changes all the time as I am constantly chasing sounds with various pedal combinations depending on the result I'm looking for. Generally it is late in my signal chain before the Finally that feeds my interface. I may add a modulation pedal before the MORE but most often I do that in the box, I use Harrison Mixbus 8 that has excellent compressors, EQs and effects. I don't use a speaker sim as my trick has always been to use a bit of room reverb to get the same result.That's certainly a glowing review! And where do you place the More in your chain? A lot of people here said to put it at the end, but I seem to prefer it going into my Genzler preamp, rather than coming after it. I'm still trying to figure out if "I'm wrong".
The MORE into Finally (with JDI) is such a versatile tool for gain staging from crystal clean to very loaded, especially helpful in combination with my various preamps.
FWIW I am not currently playing live but do not plan to use the MORE in that context anyway. IME any results from using the MORE may be redundant in a live mix unless you are blessed to have a very skilled sound tech and quality monitor system. YMMV
I've been intrigued by the MORE since it came out. One question that I wasn't sure about because everyone just sort of provides terms like more, fuller, bigger, sweeter, etc...
How much gain does it provide? Are we talking about Space Heater/Underground Accelerator level output? Does it provide the input sensitivity be used as a true preamp to power an extermal amplifier or powered speaker? I'm thinking in terms of my MAS powered cab. There are lots of "preamps" that I've tested with my setup that just don't have enough oomph to be useful. The More probably isn't the thing I'm looking for with live music, but maybe it is?
I tried searching for this in the thread, but you'd be surprised how many results you get with "more, gain, preamp" in an 877 page thread about preamps.
I have used the MORE as a pre with my Ibanez UB805 into my powered Alto speakers and it provided an adequate signal level. Much better than the UB plugged straight in.
Theoretical gain of More is around +24dB with a 12AU7 in the V1 position. Changing this tube will get you more gain, and I have used a 12AX7 in this position for use as a class-D amp driver. Using a 12AX7 in V1 bumps you up to around +37dB.
I recommend leaving 12AT7 as V2 as this won't affect the gain but will keep your output impedance low (about 170Ω), ideal for driving a load like a power amp.
Perfect! Exactly the answer I wanted.
I checked your website to see if you had numbers like this but didn't see anything. Maybe that kind of info could go on the wiki if/when that happens. As a visual learner, I love charts.
That was my only beef with the Finally. FOH would ask for a stronger signal but when I increased the level, I would have to cut my amp back and it did not sound quite as strong at lower volume/gain. Now, that is only an issue if you go FOH and to amp. And, it’s not inconceivable that I was doing something wrong. It has a great sound though. Only reason I parted ways was because I realized I didn’t like having more than one tube pedal in my chain and wanted to get another MORE. And I’m glad I did because I like what it does for my sound the best of the Sushi Boxes I’ve tried.
It’s probably mic level, which should be lower than the 1/4” output.
I have it around 9 o’clock. I’m just using it for a clean signal. I should clarify that I’m not having issues with low output. I was just curious if it’s normal for the xlr to have lower output.
I’m so happy with the sound. Was debating buying a khan DI but figured I’d try this first since I hadn’t used a tube DI before and the finally is 1/3 the price.
Gotcha. If you like a little tube sizzle from the Finally, you wouldn’t want to replace with a MORE as it gives a clean tube sound throughout the dial. If you like the clean tube a MORE is it, but then you need a DI.
Now a MORE and a Finally at the same time, that’s a different animal and that output will be very strong.
That's exactly correct, the XLR out is mic level and the 1/4" out is somewhere between instrument and line level, depending on the input level feeding the box and where you set the output volume. The finally has a pre out switch which allow you to bypass the tube pre and have a dry signal unaffected in the 1/4" output.
I just used my finally for a full month of shows and it worked like a charm. I installed a 12AU7 in mine to get more, clean tube input gain before it saturates into overdrive.
For me, the stock 12AX7's gain was too "hot" and it was either too much or not enough gain, I couldn't find a sweet spot, the AU7 fixed it. When I first used it with the stock 12AX7 the sound guy told me that last thing he wants is hearing a DI box distort.
I'm feeding the output of my pedalboard into a Morley optical volume pedal then into the finally's input and taking the 1/4" out of the finally into my amp. That way I can control my volume and dynamics in the pit and into the house alike, and it allows me to mute myself when changing basses without having to use the tuner as a mute.
After years of recording and live, I decided, long ago, that I knew my sound better than most engineers, so I send them a solid, eq'd, fx'd, and compressed feed and I tell the engineer to get his maximum gain level, set the board EQ flat and I'll take it from there. Once they hear it, they love it, and the fact I'm one less thing they have to worry about during the gig.
I'm totally pleased with my finally and it really enhances my overall tone, it just takes some time set it up.
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It's on the list. I have a few boards built up and I have a dozen or so enclosures on hand, I think the main shortfall right now is tubes. I have 30 or so 12AX7 on hand (as one does), but I need to get more 12AU7 and 12AT7. I expect to have an order go out in the next day or two, so I'll probably have parts on hand around the end of the week and potentially have more units built up early next week.
