The TB NBA Playoff thread

[MakiSupaStar]

I'm not going to argue that the Magic FAILED to close out in regulation for about 10 reasons.

However, Kobe Bryant got away with assault and battery on Jameer Nelson at the end of overtime, the overt foul led to an open 3 for Fisher that would never have happened if the refs were actually oh...DOING THEIR ******* JOBS on the play. It changed the outcome, end of discussion.

Jameer was running AT Kobe. He ran into Kobe's elbow. In fact, if you want to get technical it should have been called a foul in Kobe's favor. Sad that he took an elbow but that's part of the game IMO. Watch the reruns.

 

[Gard]

Jameer was running AT Kobe. He ran into Kobe's elbow. In fact, if you want to get technical it should have been called a foul in Kobe's favor. Sad that he took an elbow but that's part of the game IMO. Watch the reruns.

I did, so did every commentator. Every one of them said "offensive foul". It was an offensive foul.

 

[elgecko]

However, Kobe Bryant got away with assault and battery on Jameer Nelson at the end of overtime, the overt foul led to an open 3 for Fisher that would never have happened if the refs were actually oh...DOING THEIR ******* JOBS on the play. It changed the outcome, end of discussion.

Okay, wipe out Fisher's three pointer, give the Magic two points for foul shots and it's still not enough. No change in outcome!

 

[MakiSupaStar]

I did, so did every commentator. Every one of them said "offensive foul". It was an offensive foul.

Ok. What you going to do now? You going to cry? You want an ice cream?

 

[Eric Perry]

That was an offensive foul, but I don't care. The Magic failed to close out at the end of regulation. End of discussion.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

That was an offensive foul, but I don't care. The Magic failed to close out at the end of regulation. End of discussion.

Yup. Kobe's still a great player, and I still don't like him because he's gotten too many calls for too many years and now he expects them and makes tragic angry faces when he doesn't get them. But in spite of my dislike of him for this reason, he's still one of the best closers I've ever seen.

 

[Jared Lash]

That was an offensive foul, but I don't care. The Magic failed to close out at the end of regulation. End of discussion.

If it was another player I could brush that play off as incidental contact. But Bryant has a history of elbowing people, especially in the playoffs. Marko Jaric and Manu Ginobili were very clearly intentionally elbowed (and Kobe suspended for the latter) and Ron Artest, Mike Bibby and Shane Battier were all hit with clear cheap shots as well.

Watch the arc of his arms. He could have thrown the pass to the location he did without the contact. He comes up, hits Nelson to clear him out and then resets his arms to throw the pass. I wouldn't call him a dirty player (he's nowhere near Malone/Stockton/Bowen etc territory) but he occasionally makes very dirty plays.

That said, the Magic lost this game. Yes, the Lakers definitely won it in overtime, but the Magic lost it in regulation. You can't shoot yourself in the foot against the most talented team in the league and the single best player/closer in the game.

For Dwight Howard, this extended playoff run and loss in the Finals should have shown him above all else that he must develop an actual post game beyond establishing position and dunking on people. Until he's an actual offensive threat down low rather than simply an imposing physical presence, this team is going to falter in the postseason when he is doubled or fronted with strong weakside help.

 

[MJ5150]

What should have been called on Kobe? I was always taught to keep the ball up at my head level and my elbows up to keep people from reaching in a stealing it. Rough play for sure, but why did Nelson run up in there and stick his face in Kobe's business?

I watched the game last night from start to finish. First time I watched an NBA game in a few years. I did it as a trade-off with a buddy who is coming over tonight to watch his first NHL game.

-Mike

 

[Jared Lash]

What should have been called on Kobe? I was always taught to keep the ball up at my head level and my elbows up to keep people from reaching in a stealing it. Rough play for sure, but why did Nelson run up in there and stick his face in Kobe's business?

I don't think a foul SHOULD have been called on that play. Well, let me clarify. The NBA has created a situation where physical play that would be whistled in the first three quarters is not called in the 4th. And that's not endemic to games featuring Kobe Bryant, that's the way the NBA has been as long as I can remember. In fact, it's almost shocking when the opposite does happen such as LeBron being tripped on his way to the basket in Game 4 vs Orlando.

I don't agree with that policy, but that's the way the league is. I'd like to cut them some slack as basketball is the hardest game to officiate (I know, I used to ref high school games), but it's one reason why the NBA is clearly the worst officiated of the major sports IMO.

That said, if it was a foul call it would have simply been labeled an offensive foul on Bryant. Players are allowed to use their elbows to protect the ball above their head if they are stationary and they may swing their elbows below the shoulders (crossing the ball when facing up for instance) but they may not swing their elbows above the shoulders.

Though much more obvious about it than Bryant, Dwight Howard clearly has this same issue and has deserved the technicals he's received from swinging his elbows.

 

[bwv1013]

I did, so did every commentator. Every one of them said "offensive foul". It was an offensive foul.

Pietrus got away with fouling Kobe on a jumper, the "airball" play. Smacked his hand before the ball was released. Close play, no call. That could have been points for the Lakers.

Pietrus got away with smacking Pau Gasol right in the face after a shot attempt. No call.

Jameer ran at a guy who was in the middle of making a pass. He lead with his beak and got clipped. Close play, no call. We could go on and on I suppose...

There were a lot of close plays, some missed calls, and IMO a referee bias toward the Magic (37 free throws compared to 20 for the Lakers, especially considering the Magic are a jump shooting team...). In the end, the Magic played poorly down the stretch after an impressive first half, and they did not deserve to win the game by any stretch.

Blaming one call and one play for the outcome of the game =

The Magic just plain choked.

Don't even get me started on Pietrus' punk move at the end of the game. Way to throw a tantrum...

 

[Hoover]

Man, did I call that one...

Two minutes into the 3rd period the missus walks into the room, casually asks "Good game?" I said "Not any more, the Magic are squandering a 12 point lead, and they'll probably lose in OT."

I still can't believe those asshats beat Boston.

 

[bwv1013]

i think Boston had it coming either way. too many injuries and inconsistent play from their remaining stars.

 

[burk48237]

Like I said in my first analysis way back in post one, there are no great teams this year. A healthy Boston would have blown up the Lakers, but even they were not a great team. Cleveland would have given the Lakers lots of match up problems, plus Lebron would have gone to the line like a thousand times a game. Orlando is simply not ready for prime time, including Stan Van Gundy.

I said in my previews for the finals that one way the Lakers could beat Orlando is if they weren't ready for the finals. Orlando should be up 3-1, they have outplayed a mediocre Lakers team. But they have had several young player brain farts, and Jammer Nelson did nothing to deserve being on the floor for the entire fourth quarter and all of overtime. I know Alston isn't Chris Paul, but he runs the offense better, and actually does his defensive assignments.

Neither of these teams would beaten the 2004 Pistons or 05 Spurs. These are all incomplete teams with major weak-spots. And the inexperience of the Magic in prime time is just to much for them to overcome.

 

[MJ5150]

.....there are no great teams this year.

Or next year, or the year after, or any of the previous five years. This is why I quit watching.

-Mike

 

[CBRStingray]

Jameer was running AT Kobe. He ran into Kobe's elbow. In fact, if you want to get technical it should have been called a foul in Kobe's favor. Sad that he took an elbow but that's part of the game IMO. Watch the reruns.

Are there any links to a video of the incident? I didn't see it, so I'd like to determine if there is any validity to the complaints of the Magic fans, or if they are just crying like little girls.

 

[Jared Lash]

Are there any links to a video of the incident? I didn't see it, so I'd like to determine if there is any validity to the complaints of the Magic fans, or if they are just crying like little girls.

Here you go:


As a fan you can't expect to get that call at that point in the game. It isn't nearly blatant enough to get that call and there's the chance it really was incidental.

I just think looking at Kobe's past actions that it wasn't. Still, that's not why the Magic lost. Not remotely. The Magic should have fouled Fisher as soon as he caught the ball at the end of regulation. If the Lakers are shooting two free throws rather than a three pointer Orlando leaves with the series tied 2-2. Bad play from the Magic and most of all bad coaching from Van Gundy.

 

[mike_v_s]

If it was another player I could brush that play off as incidental contact. But Bryant has a history of elbowing people, especially in the playoffs. Marko Jaric and Manu Ginobili were very clearly intentionally elbowed (and Kobe suspended for the latter) and Ron Artest, Mike Bibby and Shane Battier were all hit with clear cheap shots as well.

Watch the arc of his arms. He could have thrown the pass to the location he did without the contact. He comes up, hits Nelson to clear him out and then resets his arms to throw the pass. I wouldn't call him a dirty player (he's nowhere near Malone/Stockton/Bowen etc territory) but he occasionally makes very dirty plays.

That said, the Magic lost this game. Yes, the Lakers definitely won it in overtime, but the Magic lost it in regulation. You can't shoot yourself in the foot against the most talented team in the league and the single best player/closer in the game.

For Dwight Howard, this extended playoff run and loss in the Finals should have shown him above all else that he must develop an actual post game beyond establishing position and dunking on people. Until he's an actual offensive threat down low rather than simply an imposing physical presence, this team is going to falter in the postseason when he is doubled or fronted with strong weakside help.

Completely agree. About the only thing that needs to be added is that I hope Dwight Howard gets benched for the next game. That guy had the balls to complain a few series ago about how his not getting the ball cost them a game and called his coach's decisions into question. Now, when he's getting the ball at the kind of time he thinks he should be, the dumbass can't close it out?

You. Sit here. Don't open your mouth again until you can back it up when it counts.

I dislike Kobe enough to root against the Lakers in most games they play, but I don't feel the Magic deserve to win.

Mike

 

[CBRStingray]

I watched the video. No call was the right call. One of the first things you learn when you play high level basketball is what you can, and can't, legally get away with when protecting the ball with your elbows. That was entirely legal. Nelson got way to close and should have known better.

Sorry Magic fans. You lost fair and square.

 

[bwv1013]

I watched the video. No call was the right call. One of the first things you learn when you play high level basketball is what you can, and can't, legally get away with when protecting the ball with your elbows. That was entirely legal. Nelson got way to close and should have known better.

Sorry Magic fans. You lost fair and square.

agreed. out of everything that happened in the game, the loss can't be pinned on that play.

 

[GregC]

Here you go:


As a fan you can't expect to get that call at that point in the game. It isn't nearly blatant enough to get that call and there's the chance it really was incidental.

I just think looking at Kobe's past actions that it wasn't. Still, that's not why the Magic lost. Not remotely. The Magic should have fouled Fisher as soon as he caught the ball at the end of regulation. If the Lakers are shooting two free throws rather than a three pointer Orlando leaves with the series tied 2-2. Bad play from the Magic and most of all bad coaching from Van Gundy.

I agree completely, the no-call was justified at that point. Bad coaching, bad FT shooting did them in. This series is two or three bad crunch-time decisions from being 3-1 the other way.