The Tesla and other Electric vehicle thread.....

[48thStreetCustom]

I have a diesel VW that gets over 700 miles a tank, with this 523 mile each way example I would not need to stop for a fuel up in between.

BUT...
I am Not going to go the straight trip, there will be stops to eat at a place to sit down with the meal and bathroom breaks that will be longer than just letting out liquid. These stops would balance out for me, and I assume the general public as the same as traveling with a Tesla.

Not everyone wants to do a 500+ mile trip in one blast.


My brother just went from Portland Oregon down to San Francisco Ca, there to Los Angeles, and over to Phoenix Arizona in his Tesla 3 all wheel dual motor.
He charged 6 times for 30 minutes each stop for that 1,300 trip.

With my diesel I could do that trip only needing to fill up once in the middle and at or near the end of the destination.

BUT... Again. I would not do that trip in one blast and many probably would not, so with a stop to eat and just rest every few hours, I would be stopping just as much as if I traveled with his car.

For me and probable a lot of people this all balances out. I am no longer doing cannon ball runs.
A stop for 30 minutes every 3-4 hours of driving is a healthy thing to prevent fatigue and crashes.

I've driven across the country over a dozen times. I drove around 14-16hrs per day. I wouldn't want my trip to take 40% longer.

If they outlaw ICE cars, would goods take 40% longer to be shipped? That would all be really bad for businesses. Would FedEx take 40% longer to ship your new bass from Musician's Friend? Would FedEx eliminate ground shipping and do more harm by burning jet fuel?

 

[S-Bigbottom]

I've driven across the country over a dozen times. I drove around 14-16hrs per day. I wouldn't want my trip to take 40% longer.

If they outlaw ICE cars, would goods take 40% longer to be shipped? That would all be really bad for businesses. Would FedEx take 40% longer to ship your new bass from Musician's Friend? Would FedEx eliminate ground shipping and do more harm by burning jet fuel?

I was speaking as an average vehicle consumer/user, they are not driving 300 miles to work and a long distance trip would only be a few times a year or less. For them the argument of stopping often to charge is not really as bad as it seems.

If the average Gas driver goes to the gas station once a week, that is 10 or so minutes each fill up, in a month that is 40 minutes they spent filling their vehicle in a month.
Now full electric, they do not go to a station, they "fill" at home when parked for the night. Less than a minute to plug in and you are in the house. (yes, there is the homeowner argument)

Again using my brother as I do not have first hand experience, he has not had to go and wait in line at a gas station since getting the car almost a year now and loves that he never has to stop or think about refueling. The over night charge is more than enough for his daily routine and errands, just get in and go.

He did finally go to a Gas Station two weeks ago to fill the can for his mower. I wonder what the other cars around him thought seeing a Tesla in line for gas?

Full electric is not for everyone or everything yet and I do not like the talk of the banning of fuel models.
My 1970 Chevelle Malibu is going to stay in stock condition as are my Farmall Tractors.

Electric for the average person, the positives are starting to out way the negatives.

 

[48thStreetCustom]

Full electric is not for everyone or everything yet and I do not like the talk of the banning of fuel models.

That's pretty much my position. EVs are a segment of the market the same way hot rods or vintage Euro sports cars are. They require you to change your lifestyle to be into them. They're never going to be mainstream because of the sacrifices you need to make.

 

[bholder]

That's pretty much my position. EVs are a segment of the market the same way hot rods or vintage Euro sports cars are. They require you to change your lifestyle to be into them. They're never going to be mainstream because of the sacrifices you need to make.

I disagree completely, no meaningful sacrifices needed already, the benefits far outweigh the downsides (for me). And if we don't make them mainstream, we'll all die, so there's that.

 

[48thStreetCustom]

I disagree completely, no meaningful sacrifices needed already, the benefits far outweigh the downsides (for me). And if we don't make them mainstream, we'll all die, so there's that.

I already explained the huge sacrifices above that make them completely out of the question for anyone who lives with on-street parking or drives long distances.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

That's pretty much my position. EVs are a segment of the market the same way hot rods or vintage Euro sports cars are. They require you to change your lifestyle to be into them. They're never going to be mainstream because of the sacrifices you need to make.

eh... Gas stop for fuel on a weekly basis or stop for Charge (fuel) on a long trip twice or so a year.

Then the "Crap, need to wait until payday on Friday but my tank is low. Just $10 of 87 today." then you go back two days later on payday to fill up.

EV is always full in the morning to start your day.

 

[48thStreetCustom]

EV is always full in the morning to start your day.

Not if you live in a city with on-street parking.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

I already explained the huge sacrifices above that make them completely out of the question for anyone who lives with on-street parking or drives long distances.

This is true.

 

[Alkali Ike]

This is true.

It's true for potential buyers who can't or won't adapt. If you're obsessed with recharging to full every night, then it becomes a problem. I charged my e-Golf about once a week, using it mostly for in town errands. Its 125 mile range was adequate for that kind of driving without having to constantly recharge it. I have a Level 2 charger in the garage but I never felt I had to recharge the car every day. In fact doing that isn't gonna do anything good for battery longevity. But that's me.

 

[bholder]

I already explained the huge sacrifices above that make them completely out of the question for anyone who lives with on-street parking or drives long distances.

And I already said "(for me)" - none of those "huge sacrifices" apply to me. We'll have to find solutions for those they do apply do.

You're absolutely ignoring my main point. The world needs to convert to 100% EVs as soon as possible or we'll kill all meaningful life on this planet. There's still time to avoid disaster, but only just barely, if we start acting aggressively NOW.

Not politics, not opinion, scientifically proven fact.

 

[48thStreetCustom]

This is true.

And I already said "(for me)" - none of those "huge sacrifices" apply to me. We'll have to find solutions for those they do apply do.

You're absolutely ignoring my main point. The world needs to convert to 100% EVs as soon as possible or we'll kill all meaningful life on this planet. There's still time to avoid disaster, but only just barely, if we start acting aggressively NOW.

Not politics, not opinion, scientifically proven fact.

Not a proven fact. According to the EPS, only 14% of carbon emission come from transportation and personal cars are a small percentage that. Trucking, shipping, rail and airlines make up the vast majority of carbon emissions from transportation.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

It's true for potential buyers who can't or won't adapt. If you're obsessed with recharging to full every night, then it becomes a problem. I charged my e-Golf about once a week, using it mostly for in town errands. Its 125 mile range was adequate for that kind of driving without having to constantly recharge it. I have a Level 2 charger in the garage but I never felt I had to recharge the car every day. In fact doing that isn't gonna do anything good for battery longevity. But that's me.

Forgot about that.
Basically the same as going to the gas station, find a charger a few blocks to a mile or so away, charge and good for the week.
There are quite a few around downtown areas, so it is a once a week thing to do as those I know that live in that area never go more that 15-20 miles a day. I live 35 miles from some and you would think I am in another county for them to come out to my area.

 

[Alkali Ike]

Look at it this way: Do you fill up with gas every day after doing about 20 miles? Of course not.

There's a lack of confidence in EVs and charging them that makes some people feel they must recharge every day no matter what. While recharging may take a slight bit of planning, you probably don't need to do it every day unless (as someone mentioned) you're driving crazy highway miles all the time.

You kind of have to live with one for a while before making a judgment. *shrug*

 

[D M C]

I drove my Model Y LR from Ohio to Florida in December. The trip in my ICE car, under ideal conditions takes about 16 to 18 hours overall (usually takes a couple of hours just to pass through metro Atlanta alone, but the pandemic made that nightmare into just a disturbing dream. I imagine it’ll return to normal later this summer, but I’ll be back in Ohio by then,) and I have to make at least 3 stops for gas on the way.
My trip this year took about 2 hours longer and I recharged about 6 or 7 times, each charge taking 30 minutes on average.
The Model Y LR is rated at 325 miles per charge, but that’s from full to zero percent, which is not what one does on a road trip. Usually, you’ll charge from 10% to 90% for a couple of reasons: 1, it supposedly reduces overall battery life to charge to 100%, so Tesla does not recommend, 2, the closer you get to a full charge, the slower the charging rate so charging to 80% takes about 20 minutes and from 80 to 100% takes another 10 minutes, so it’s not worth going beyond 90%.
Anyway, one of the charges was at the motel where we spent the night, so it added nothing to the length of the trip. All of the charges were on Tesla’s supercharger network which are spaced so as to allow you to comfortably drive along the route without worrying about being unable to find a charge.
While here in Florida, I charge at home, so I never have to use a fast charger.
I personally buy a vehicle to accommodate my typical needs, rather than buying one to account for any transportation use that I might conceivably have and traveling long distances is not something I typically do, so the Tesla meets my needs. YMMV.
Lastly, the plans for electric long-haul trucking - Tesla or other manufacturers- is currently being delayed by a lack of batteries, not by a lack of technological breakthroughs. They will not be limited to 40% of the range of diesel trucks and additional charging stations are growing exponentially.

 

[Alkali Ike]

Randomly picked Canadian study:

How much do cars really pollute?

But are cars really the problem? How much does that hunk of metal in your driveway contribute to climate change that’s causing pollution? As it turns out, quite a bit. Cars and SUVs are a significant contributor to Canada’s overall greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, which are pushing the world into a climate crisis.

Light-duty vehicles (read: cars) produce more than four times the GHG emissions of all domestic aviation, according to Canada’s 2019 national greenhouse gas inventory. If you include light-duty vehicles and light-duty trucks – so, cars, pickups, SUVs and smaller vans – they account for nearly half of all GHG emissions from the transportation category. Heavy-duty vehicles, such as 18-wheelers and larger pickup trucks, make up the other big chunk, at 35 per cent. Railways account for 3.8 per cent of the category, while motorcycles contribute 0.2 per cent.

 

[D M C]

 

[Ronzo]

For an EV to be my sole vehicle, it needs to have AWD and a range of at least 300 miles. Why 300 miles? Because that will get me from Eugene to Bend with no charging stops and range to spare. Now Bend is only about 140 miles away. But you have to climb from 450 ft elevation to over 5000 ft crossing the Cascades. That elevation change eats up a lot of energy.

True. But regenerative braking assists you on the return trip on the downhill side.

I drive a Kia Niro hybrid. Mine had no trouble traveling to Rocky Top, TN on the hillclimb. On the reverse leg, it went into full EV mode at 85 mph on the downhill grade from the top of Lookout Mountain, TN to Chattanooga. Was dumping charge current to protect the batteries much of the way.

Most hybrids and EVs today with a factory nav system use that system as a “look-ahead” system to pre-load charge into the batteries when the nav system is used. That may extend the range as well.

Few trips are uphill both ways.

 

[Mike N]

You're absolutely ignoring my main point. The world needs to convert to 100% EVs as soon as possible or we'll kill all meaningful life on this planet. There's still time to avoid disaster, but only just barely, if we start acting aggressively NOW.

Not politics, not opinion, scientifically proven fact.

I'll disagree.

 

[Alkali Ike]

Few trips are uphill both ways.

In the example I used, the return trip from 5000+ feet elevation to 450 feet would use far less energy. The extra energy required to go from 450 ft elevation to 5000+ feet (the destination) is no less real.

 

[D M C]

Not a proven fact. According to the EPS, only 14% of carbon emission come from transportation and personal cars are a small percentage that. Trucking, shipping, rail and airlines make up the vast majority of carbon emissions from transportation.

No. 28% is from transportation. Carbon Pollution from Transportation | US EPA