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The Trace Elliot V-type Club!!
- Thread starter Mitchthebassplayer
- Start date
Wow all this talk of V8 values...I picked mine up for $2000 australian which is about a quater of that ebay one lol. Absolutely love it but i am a total idiot and ran it for a few seconds without a load and it isn't going at the moment. Hopefully it'll be something small and fixed quickly i am hopefull because it didnt go bang or smoke. Anyway we had a great few months together before that. First ever real tube amp!
Could be as simple as a blown fuse, or as bad a blown transformer.
See the top of page 7 in the attached manual for a graphic of the rear panel.
There is a mains fuse built into the IEC plug on the rear left side of the chassis. There are also four fuses for the output tubes on the rear of the amp, near the center. If one of these fuses opens, it should light a LED and two of the output tubes will stop working. It's unlikely that all four of these are blown. The main fuse would probably go first. Additionally there are two HT fuses on top of the chassis near the rear of the amp. You need to remove the rear panel to access these.
If the problem is a blown transformer, you have a major problem as I believe there are no spares left in the supply chain. You can get a transformer company to rebuild the transformer, but it won't be cheap. FYI the primary voltages are marked on the schematic, so let me know if you need a copy.
There are a couple more internal fuses, but I don't think these would be impacted by turning your amp on with the speaker unplugged.
Accidents happen and I have turned on several of my tube amps with the speakers unplugged. A good strategy is to play softly at first and if the amp does not make any sound, put it back in standy and explore why. Avoid the temptation to turn up the volume, as this can cause the amp to self-destruct. Unfortunately, it is possible for an amp to self-destruct when you simply turn it on without a speaker connected, but I think this is fairly rare.
That’s a mean looking stack. Hope it’s a simple fix. Weren’t there issues with the fuses on the first ones that needed modded?
That problem involves the heater fuses. There's are images on this Facebook that shows the problem and various ways of solving it. Trace Elliot V-Type V8
My V8 had the original heater fuse holders when I got it. The problem is the heater circuit pulls a lot of current and oxidation between the fuses and fuse holders causes resistance. High current through resistance turns into lot's of heat. My amp stopped working and when I pulled the chassis out of the head case, there was a big blob of solder on the bottom of the case. Basically the fuse holder got so hot that it unsoldered itself from the circuit board. When this fault occurs, the amp turns on, but the pilot light and heaters for the output tubes do not work. I believe the preamp heaters continue to work as they are DC in the V8.
It was obvious the fuse holders had been soldered back in place multiple times, which is not an effective repair. I cut out the damaged part of the circuit board and installed pigtail fuses on standoffs and the amp has worked reliably for almost 10 years.
It's too bad you need to flip it, as the series I V-Types are fabulous sounding amps. There is really something special about the low end of these amps that even the mighty V8 does not capture.
Thanks greatly for all the info excellent help. Actually the symptoms that you just described sound identical to what mine is doing! The amp does turn on and I can see the preamp tubes glowing but not the output tubes or the main light of the on switch are working.
I checked every fuse that you mentioned and all seemed fine to me so I think this narrows down my issues!! Total legend I will have to read the fb posts. Now that you say that the time before when I ran it for a long time it did have a bit of a smell but because I thought it was all new (had been recently retubed) that it was just that..first ever tube amp lol...You give me more hope!
@madmaskbass
Please check this fuses inside the amp:
Please check this fuses inside the amp:
When I bought mine, the heater fuses had mostly unsoldered themselves already. When the guy turned the amp on for a demo, it made a horrible arcing sound in the speakers. He gave it a light tap on the side of the case and it stopped. He wouldn't budge on the price, but I bought the amp anyway due to its rarity. I had driven from Landstuhl Germany to Lokeren Belgium to pick it up and had the money in my pocket.
I had no idea what the problem was, but if I tapped the amp it would make the arcing sound. A month or so after I bought the amp, I went to turn it and the pilot light was out. At first I didn't think it was a big deal as it not unusual for the little incandescent lamps to burn out and they are easy to replace. But the amp did not make sound when I set it to operate. So I looked in back and noticed the heaters in the output tubes were not lighting up.
I decided to pull the chassis to see if I could figure out the problem. That's when I saw the big blow of solder in the bottom of the case. It wasn't hard to track down the problem as the circuit board was charred from the heat around the fuse holders and one of the fuse holders was loose. I got on Talkbass and discovered this is a common problem with V8s and it is recommended to modify the amp to prevent recurrence.
Some people just bridge the circuit with wire, but I think it's a good idea to retain the fuses. I used pigtail fuses in my mod, mounted on terminal posts, so oxidation between the fuse and fuse holder is not a problem. The fuses do get fairly hot, but not hot enough to desolder themselves from the terminal posts. I cut the charred part of the circuit board out of the amp as I was concerned the burned area could be conductive.
awesome info again mate! mine has now gone in to an awesome tech for mods and check over. I was close to doing it myself but decided that the tech may aswell get it baselined as it is new to me and I would like it reliable for gigging. all info had been passed on. cheers!!
V4 is a very loud 200 watts. Must got mine to a tech soon and fire it up again.
EDIT: Please don't let me have started another "200 watts is 200 watts" debate. V4 users will know what I mean.
EDIT: Please don't let me have started another "200 watts is 200 watts" debate. V4 users will know what I mean.
Many 200W tube heads don't make an honest 200W. So I will agree's the V4 is a stout little amp, since a good healthy one will make about 225W.
My giggin V4 with 6550 does seem a bit louder than my spare one with kt88s
Okay your just teasing us now. What does this mean? I am not an engineer, but based on the voltages in the amp, I would expect it to work just fine with either tube. Perhaps your tech added plate resistors or ferrite beads to the tube sockets to suppress parasitic oscillations?
I am also surprised that 6550s produce more power in the amp. On average, KT88s have a higher dissipation rating than 6550s, so technically they should be capable of producing more power under the right circumstances.
FYI, generally the power supply and output transformer determine how much power the amp makes as much as the tube type.
The 6550 is sometimes described as a bit brighter and the KT88 more even with stronger bass. If the voicing is different, it could give the perception that the 6550 is louder, even though it doesn't make more power.
I compared Winged-C 6550s to JJ KT88 in my Aguilar DB359 and I couldn't tell the difference. Then again I also compared JJ KT88 to Rub KT88V-STR in my Matchless Thunderchief and there was a significant difference. Lot's of people say, there really is no electrical/operational difference between 6550 and KT88 with modern tubes as the tubes are no longer made to meet the original specs...I don't know if there is any truth to this.
Anyway, you have piqued my interest.
He is the Fender authorised repair guy in his 70s and just about all the vintage amps that go through him he uses his gizmo,he explained it as “just silicone on (can be pulled out easily) and he can match up the valves exactly over a few days”
