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The Vinyl Comeback Is Stalling?

Here's a new piece from writer Ted Gioia who had written on the vinyl comeback about a year ago.

The bad news in short is the market growth for vinyl in 2021 was 95% and in 2022 only 4%. Although vinyl outpaced CDs in revenue in total units sold, when it comes to number of units sold CD and vinyl are still running neck and neck. The hyped cassette revival looks like, well, hype.

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Even worse he wrote this:
24bit at 96k no cutter head or tape head can come close to s/n well over 130db flat frequency 20 to 20k
I know vinyl sound good,, but it is color that we are hearing. a good 44.1 at 16 bit can sound very HI FI.
Now we have the 1 bit system that is over the top HI FI.
 
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Anyway, here are my worthless 2 million $ of opinion.

You left out quadraphonic sound. I went whole hog with quad back in 1973 (the format launched in 1969). By 1980 noone was making quad LPs or tapes any more. One big problem with quad was the sweet spot for listening was in the middle of four equidistant speakers. This was not very practical in most listening rooms! If you did manage to sit right in the middle it was fantastic, though. I found a copy of Dark Side Of The Moon in quad (German import) and it was a wild experience. Some other LPs I had in quad were Aerosmith, Steely Dan, The Doors, Joe Walsh, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Santana, Poco, Loggins and Messina, Jackson Browne, Judy Collins, Carly Simon, James Taylor, Pharaoh Sanders (!!), Sun Ra (!!!!)...but like today's LP vs. CD quandary, many titles were never released in quad. When a new album came out I had to decide whether to buy it in stereo or wait and see if a quad version might come out.

Even better you could get "fake quad" out of all your stereo LPs and tapes! Old "ping pong" stereo mixes like the old Beatles LPs with vocals all in one channel and the bass and drums all in the other sounded huge, wrapping around you.

The LPs and tapes (both 8 track and open reel) cost $1 more than the stereo versions. That was back to the old mess of pressing and selling both mono and stereo records during the 1960s. Only a few labels went all in selling only the quad versions because the LPs (but not tapes) played fine on a stereo system. The hardware was more expensive...four speakers instead of two, two more channels in the amplifiers and tape decks. Quad FM radio was possible but few stations adopted it, although I still have a Who concert from 1973 that was broadcast in quad on the King Biscuit Flower Hour on a bootleg LP (I had heard it live over the air...wow!!).

When Dolby Surround arrived soon after quad died, it took off because people were willing to pay more money for a video setup than they were for an audio setup. Video surround systems sound like crap for audio because the rear channel amps and speakers are not of the same quality as the front speakers...they are mainly for sound effects...and the "center channel" speaker is for dialogue.

Dolby Atmos for music might take off for a simple reason...the only thing needed is a set of headphones. The full speaker setup is ridiculous...speakers on the ceiling and floor? Who has that much space in their home? Yet over phones you get the whole experience, the sound comes from all around including above and below you. I've heard some Atmos demos on nice headphones and it sounds even better than quad did. Apple has already gone all in with Atmos on iPhones and AirBuds. I'm expecting to see TVs with Atmos and connections for wireless earbuds soon. Now I'm waiting for the DSOTM Atmos remix :roflmao:
 
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24bit at 96k no cutter head or tape head can come close to s/n well over 130db flat frequency 20 to 20k
I know vinyl sound good,, but it is color that we are hearing. a good 44.1 at 16 bit can sound very HI FI.
Now we have the 1 bit system that is over the top HI FI.

And when we acknowledge that 'color' is a desirable thing - however subjective - we understand that vinyl is attractive for that very thing. Kind of like why people spend thousands of dollars on tube preamps, etc to 'warm up' digital recordings, whether they're coming from CDs or MP3/FLAC, WAV, etc. sources.
 
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I do love vinyl, and occasionally buy a new copy of something, usually some classic, like a really nice pressing. But it's just so expensive, I reserve it for those special things. Otherwise I'm very happy listening to my decades-old records, many of which are pretty thrashed (but I dig that vibe). My 17 year old however, spends a lot more than I do on new vinyl--at around $25 a pop on average.
I wish it were cheaper to press vinyl in small batches. I'd love to make say, ten 12"s of some of my own stuff just to give to people, and to have for myself. But I can never really justify the $.

We have a small-run vinyl plant that is doing quite well these days here in Asheville. Check them out...

Citizen Vinyl
 
I gave away the last of my vinyl a while back. I have all of my music on CDs which were easily uploaded onto an Apple drive. All my electronic devices can see the music files including an iPad which is a permanent resident in my stereo rig. I can call up any song I own in seconds and it plays right every time. I'm trying to think of a compelling reason why I would want to own vinyl and there is none.

I recently found the matching MIJ Yamaha cassette deck for my Yamaha stereo rig at an estate sale (cheap). It works fine. I still cant think of a good reason why I bought it or what I would do with it. Who would want to use a cassette deck these days?!
 
Having something tangible is appealing to those brought up on ether. One of my band mates owns a vinyl record shop. They do better every year, despite the dumb price increases and availability issues. You cannot beat vinyl for the art package, due to sheer size. And all those records almost always come with lossless digital download. Win-win if anybody is buying music instead of streaming though, regardless of format. Oh, to add: he can't keep turntables in stock- they sell out fast and then he has to wait on more to become available.
 
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I like records, not for the sound, for the artwork and liner notes. I have 6 copies of Synchronicity ( the Police). Each cover is different. This is cool to me, but I'm really just sitting on a lot of collectable vinyl for the niche market.. really mostly middle aged white guys.. like me. I don't listen o those copies. I'll sell when the time is right and it will be. My Dub and Reggae records, NEED to be vinyl. The most valuable records are 1. the ones you'll actually take the time to listen to whether than stream. 2. the ones that are rare and in demand. I don't have numbers and I couldn't find the info, but I am pretty sure a LOT of music has not been uploaded to the internet, not yet, but the number is growing daily, and yes, I do believe that will impact the ardor for vinyl.. at least for listening . Tose from my ( I guess, gggeneration) will definitely recall the experience of the vinyl packaging, the liner notes, the lyrics, the art. Whether it is a fond memory or meh... is personal. BTW, if you come across original Blue Note records, not 70's rereleases. Yeah, those are quite valuable. The same for 90's vinyl. Scarcity. It drives up prices.
 
Interesting thread - lot's of good points for and against vinyl. I'm chasing music, and keeping the best reproduction equipment I can prudently afford, in all formats. Here, we stream (Tidal HiFi+ and internet radio), listen to some good terrestrial radio stations when in Los Angeles and Los Osos, and while I sold much of my hi-fi equipment when we downsized out of our LA home, over 3000 vinyl albums and 1500 CDs went into storage, and my vintage but good quality turntable and phono preamp are boxed up here - when we replace our LA home, vinyl will return.

I was a pro trombonist for many years, and got into home sound as sublimation for no longer playing much when I started law school...and quickly found that my sense of "sounds good" or "sounds right" or "sounds like real music" didn't coincide with a lot of what's out there. I'm fussy about timbre and micro-dynamic resolution. But if you buy smart (in my case, that's high-quality used stuff, and particular attention to the UK audio industry, which designs exceptionally useful stuff for small and mid-size rooms), you don't have to spend a fortune - I've helped a lot of friends and family develop very good sounding systems, for surprisingly little money, and my system has evolved through different living spaces and budget points over the years, but if I had no alternative, I could be happy with the system I had by the Fall of 1987 - good UK turntable, good mid-level UK amp, good budget UK speakers, and a great boat anchor of a Japanese tuner. All bought used or on close-out - given my financial aid situation, I scrimped on other things so as to get good sound.

Having made my pitch for broadest possible media access (and also confessing that I'm a Luddite, so setting up an NAS is unlikely), here's the riff in favor of vinyl.

By time CDs started to appear, I had 500-600 vinyl albums, some dating back to my high school years in the early '70s. I'd taken pretty good care of the ones purchased after 1976, and they were my "research library" in a broad range of genres, particularly, jazz, salsa, and brazilian music, from which I learned how to play. No way I was gonna chuck those, in favor of buying the same music on CD! Plus, a lot of my collection was imported or low-distribution product, unlikely to see decent digital conversion - or even conversion, at all.

So I started checking out CD in the mid'80's, and they simply didn't sound good. The dynamic range and frequency capability was undeniable, as was the potential for limited degradation. But "perfect sound forever?" Nope, particularly on orchestral and acoustic music. Bright, shrill, a weird lack of timbral resolution (inability to distinguish english horn from oboe? Some truly awful clarinet sounds from world-class orchestras?), and unsatisfying. OTOH, popular music shifted quickly to digital editing and mastering, along with increased reliance on digital-based synthesis, so I ultimately bought a CD player and started laying in a supply of CDs, mostly recent releases that had originated or been mixed/mastered through digital techniques and were broadly rooted in rock/pop/R&B sensibilities.

I move to Los Angeles in 1989 with close to 1000 albums, and was blown away by the wealth of great used records ,available for pennies, as Los Angelenos dumped their vinyl. Between those opportunities and buying new vinyl - trying to avoid stuff with digital in the chain - my collection bulged. But I've also bought CDs - many of imported product that would not be findable on vinyl - and had a ball. The big news is that to my ears, by the early Oughts, classical recording and mastering was refined enough to make good use of "Redbook" CD parameters.

Yes, vinyl degrades over time, but my equipment is good enough to ameliorate degradation. And CDs can also develop scratch/drop-out problems! When reunited with my vinyl, and at that time hopefully done with my day gig, I'll need to do some pruning - based on condition, I'll probably jettison 15-20% of my vinyl collection, mostly on the classical side, due to condition. I'll also prune CDs that are not likely to see repeated listening. Maybe I'll transfer a lot of CDs to a hard drive, in FLAC format, but that project looks daunting.

Being without the collection means that I've been forced to explore streaming, and Tidal product at 16 bits or better is fine. Internet radio doesn't seem to exceed MP3 quality, but the range of material, from around the world, is undeniable. I can live with it. And I have to update my streamer to get the "beyond CD" formats off of Tidal - I'm looking forward to the results.

BUT... Call me old-fashioned, nostalgic, high-frequency-hearing compromised (too many arena gigs with no ear protection, back in the day), stubborn, Luddite, whatever...but when I settle in for serious listening, I go with vinyl. I've done side-by-side with vinyl and CDs (and over the last 15 years I had an excellent Accuphase CD player that was optimized for mid-range resolution), and the vinyl almost ALWAYS brought me closer to the music. Most importantly, truth in timbre, and incisive timing. Weirdly, CD often sounds more impressive in the way of percussive effects, but I think that's because of the dynamic range and high-end emphasis. But the time values don't hold together as well, and the timbres - good, nuanced jazz cymbal work, in particular - don't sound right. Interestingly, a lot of audiophiles go nuts over imaging, stage width and depth -- spatial cues -- that seem to come with digital. Those audiophiles subscribe to "you are there." I'm the opposite: I want the musicians here! Vinyl most consistently does it, for me.

So despite the hassles, I'll resume my thing for vinyl when domestic space permits.
 
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I just recently got back into the vinyl thing in the last year, I bought a budget(ish) record player from Audio Technica, and started looking around for some vinyl, I was surprised just how much stuff was out for "current bands"...the vinyl comeback may be stalling, but I don't think it's going away again any time soon.

Now the vinyl pricing (as mentioned earlier) is getting outta line in some cases, but there are still some reasonably priced treasures out there to be had.

One thing I have found, is that some of the vinyl purchases I've made on Amazon also come with the "digital copy" as well, so I can download that to my phone or whatever, which is kinda nice since it's tough to play records in my car. :thumbsup:
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Or is it? :D
 
The thing with vinyl is that the player, its components and setup, and preamp, are very influential to the sound quality. A new or well cared for record will sound spectacular on a good player with a good cartridge that's been set up correctly. That same record will sound like garbage on one of those all in one boxes sold at Walmart.

Selfishly speaking, I hope the "comeback" lasts for a long time as I buy a lot of records these days.
 

Yes, although on purpose, as we're talking here about no longer popular media making a resurgence, not ones that stay obsolete...... :-D

One big problem with quad was the sweet spot for listening was in the middle of four equidistant speakers. This was not very practical in most listening rooms! If you did manage to sit right in the middle it was fantastic, though.

When Dolby Surround arrived soon after quad died, it took off because people were willing to pay more money for a video setup than they were for an audio setup. Video surround systems sound like crap for audio because the rear channel amps and speakers are not of the same quality as the front speakers...they are mainly for sound effects...and the "center channel" speaker is for dialogue.

And that ties to the missing technological advancement and sales part. For a regular person, when you ask them what they'd dedicate a room in their house/dream mansion/palace/whatever to if they had a chance, you are more likely to hear 'a home cinema' than 'a listening room'. And why? What makes movies attractive enough that people are willing to dedicate a whole room to it, but not music? Is recorded music not a good enough entertainment that you'd make the best possible listening space for it? And true to surround sound systems not being made for music. However, 5.1 system for music would literally mean just adding 3 more speakers of the same type as in 2.1, no special research required here on company's part. I wouldn't think 5.1 music studios would want to be limited to having function-specific speakers, so you could make a guitar solo walk around you and sound as good from all angles :D

Dolby Atmos for music might take off for a simple reason...the only thing needed is a set of headphones. The full speaker setup is ridiculous...speakers on the ceiling and floor? Who has that much space in their home? Yet over phones you get the whole experience, the sound comes from all around including above and below you. I've heard some Atmos demos on nice headphones and it sounds even better than quad did. Apple has already gone all in with Atmos on iPhones and AirBuds. I'm expecting to see TVs with Atmos and connections for wireless earbuds soon. Now I'm waiting for the DSOTM Atmos remix :roflmao:

I have listened to the demos on Atmos website, and here I completely disagree, to me it sounded just like a different mix. There's no way you can make sound come at you from behind with only two front or side speakers, you need physical sound sources behind to make you hear them behind you. Maybe there is something in mixing in Atmos that makes even 2.0 sound nice, but there's no magic in this world to make two points of sound behave like 12.

Here is the question I'm having: in the modern world, where nobody wants to pay for music more than $10 a month, can you still make a regular consumer want music mixed in surround at all, or has that ship long sailed and taken regular 2.0 hi-fi with it, leaving only ear buds and mobile phones behind? It is kind of difficult to make people excited about music, and therefore pay more for it and in return give musicians more income, when general consensus is gear for music = crappy tiny ear buds, but gear for movies= massive sound and video system. Or maybe we should foster the trend for old vinyl/CD/cassettes so that the new normal thing again for music consumption is two good quality speakers, before there's any talk about expanding the system further?
 
I have a pile of old LPs, some of which never made it to CD (for example: The Roots of Rock'Roll on the Savoy label).

There is some music that hasn't made it from the LP to any digital format, but the Savoy Roots of Rock 'n' Roll collection from the '70s was a reissue of tracks originally issued on 78s. I think you'll find that all or nearly all of the tracks there are individually available streaming or as digital downloads.
 
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There is some music that hasn't made it from the LP to any digital format, but the Savoy Roots of Rock 'n' Roll collection from the '70s was a reissue of tracks originally issued on 78s. I think you'll find that all or nearly all of the tracks there are individually available streaming or as digital downloads.

You'd need to know the songs, which are not visible on any of the vinyl ads, to know what to save. And one of the charms of the album is the order in which the songs are presented. Somebody at Savoy actually thought about it.;)
 
A bunch of professional electronic music DJs are multi-format. And they're all over YouTube. There are some really good DJs out there now! Tigerhead and Amelie Lens come to mind. No microphones, though...

Really, I was thinking about it because about ten years ago I rescued a bunch of 12-inch singles and albums from a dumpster. The ones I've played on my turntable are in decent condition. Total of around 300 or so. Should have shopped them around some used-vinyl stores before the fad ended.
 
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I got the vinyl bug over the pandemic. I was working remotely at a friends office and they had a turntable and a lot of music we all enjoy.

I loved putting on a record and just settling in for the whole experience while working. With streaming or even CD, it’s so easy to bump tracks obviously, and vinyl was a different experience.

Previously from childhood to my late 20s and 30s I was buying tons of CDs and some cassettes in the 80s. It was a lot of fun collecting and I knew if I started with vinyl I would develop a umm, problem.

The problem has bloomed to maybe 150 records. It’s been so fun though. It’s crazy how older original pressing sound so different than Spotify or CD. I picked up Rio this weekend used for $9 and it sounds like a different mix, but in a good way. Really $$$ fun $$$ hobby.