Theory question - E#?

[Pacman]

So does that mean it can't be an inversion at all? You'd have to use a minor 6 of the A to make it an F Augmented, since an A augmented triad can't be A C# F, right? It would have to be an A C# E#

Correct.

So then the only way it could be a first inversion of the E# would be if the other two notes were G## and B##, correct?

Also correct.

A+ just makes more sense to me, anyways.

Which is what the original post also said, yes.

 

[uethanian]

Never heard of that and I'm dubious. By whose measure?

Think of a piano. E# and F are played on the same key. Same with a bass - same fret (or "stop" on a fretless or DB) for both notes.

there are a couple different ways to approach this...

say we're in C major. a pure major third is 5/4 or about 386 cents. if you try arriving at the same E by a chain of pure fifths (3/2 or 702 cents) C - G - D - A - E you end up with a 81/64 E, about 408 cents. the discrepancy between these two E's is 81/80 or 21.5 cents, known as the syntonic comma. temperament is the distribution of these commas, either unequally (in meantone) or equally (12-tone equal temperament). now because C is a 'close' or optimized key in meantone you don't run into enharmonic discrepancies. but if you take a chain of 12 meantone fifths

Ab - Eb - Bb - F - C - G - D - A - E - B - F# - C#

an extension in either either direction creates an enharmonic (G# vs. Ab). so in stopping at 12, the C# - Ab interval is a 'wolf fifth,' basically very out of tune. that is why baroque composers (typically speaking) did not write in the 'distant' keys of C# or Ab. there are some instances of baroque harpsichords/organs built with split black keys, but because of the added technical complexity of the instruments it never caught on.

as far as orchestral music goes...DB's are most often playing roots and fifths so tuning adjustment isn't as big an issue...but if you are playing violin or trumpet you become very aware of these discrepancies, and conductors will often talk of 'sweetening' some chord by raising or lowering certain notes from their equally tempered values.

 

[dvh]

there are a couple different ways to approach this...

say we're in C major. a pure major third is 5/4 or about 386 cents. if you try arriving at the same E by a chain of pure fifths (3/2 or 702 cents) C - G - D - A - E you end up with a 81/64 E, about 408 cents. the discrepancy between these two E's is 81/80 or 21.5 cents, known as the syntonic comma. temperament is the distribution of these commas, either unequally (in meantone) or equally (12-tone equal temperament). now because C is a 'close' or optimized key in meantone you don't run into enharmonic discrepancies. but if you take a chain of 12 meantone fifths

Ab - Eb - Bb - F - C - G - D - A - E - B - F# - C#

an extension in either either direction creates an enharmonic (G# vs. Ab). so in stopping at 12, the C# - Ab interval is a 'wolf fifth,' basically very out of tune. that is why baroque composers (typically speaking) did not write in the 'distant' keys of C# or Ab. there are some instances of baroque harpsichords/organs built with split black keys, but because of the added technical complexity of the instruments it never caught on.

as far as orchestral music goes...DB's are most often playing roots and fifths so tuning adjustment isn't as big an issue...but if you are playing violin or trumpet you become very aware of these discrepancies, and conductors will often talk of 'sweetening' some chord by raising or lowering certain notes from their equally tempered values.

Wow. I've learned something.... Thanks

 

[t77mackie]

Sorry to bump this thread as it's been dead for a bit but as the OP I just wanted to say thanx to all the contributors.

I think the short answer to my question is, "Yes."

-mac