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theory - Why do we call D# Eb, but also call Db C#?

#66
Killed_by_Death said:
When referring to tunings, Eb-Standard is quite widely recognized as a half-step down from E-Standard.

However, if we go a step & a half down that's called C#-Standard, why?
It's also Db-Standard, but I've never seen it written out as such.
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symantex, I got schooled by a keyboard player once, it's sort of a theory thing, having to do with key signatures. the amount of sharps&flats in the scale, so C# & Db are kinda the same, except for ease of use you say D b instead. as my ex girlfriend like to say, "you say tomåtø, I say F**k off!!"
 
#69
With Rock music(and other styles), bands tunes down for pitch change but typically don't call it another key because they know and play their instruments by fretboard patterns so an open E is still E no matter where it's tuned down to.

I don't know any Rock songs truly written in Db but because I'm classically trained on piano, I know there are many in piano scores. Chopins famous Minute Waltz is one example.

Music theory can he confusing with relative keys, accidentals, and enharmonics but there are reasons for it and it makes sense the more you learn.

Basically it starts with when you raise a note a semi tone you sharpen it, lowering the same you flatten it. In the musical scale there are 2 places where there are no semi-tones no matter which key you're in. That's where the terms came from even though a C# is the same as Db.

Double flats and sharps may add to the confusion but they are used in written music to make a note already used in a measure.

Study the cycle of 5ths for sharp keys and cycle of 4ths for flat keys and you can see where relative keys are and why any given note can be a flat or a sharp in a particular key.
 
#70
dkelley said:
... accidentals are not part of a key signature... sharps and flats are called sharps and flats, they only become accidentals when you have to play a written note that falls outside of the key signature.
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Agreed, I stand corrected. Too late to edit my original post.
 
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#73
I've never really cared what that note between D and E was named and I/we play a fretted instrument that's not an issue while playing the instrument. ... Unlike a wind instrument, (I dabble on trumpet), that relies more on different fingering to play those notes. ... My biggest pet-peeve is when I'm reading a chord chart and the person, who wrote the chart, adds a C# when we are clearly in a flat key. ...
 
#76
Killed_by_Death said:
When referring to tunings, Eb-Standard is quite widely recognized as a half-step down from E-Standard.

However, if we go a step & a half down that's called C#-Standard, why?
It's also Db-Standard, but I've never seen it written out as such.
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I'm glad you posted this, Killed. It's so enriching & cool to read different musicians' takes on these things. Yet almost always in cases of ANY general or semi-general topic, you get the diss that '***, this has been hashed over so many times', "yawn, again?', or this is too basic to deign to seriously reply to. What the heck, there are always new people here and I have certainly missed whole years due to life issues. S'blood, folks, what the hell better is there to talk about these days? I ask ya?
This topic in particular is always worth thinking about because it's like one of those Neils Bohr things he called 'complimentarity' where like you can plainly see the truth (Db/C#) in two different ways - and if you're good, at the same time even. This to the point of the person (Rocu) who posted the juxtaposed 'rocket science / music theory' pics.
To avoid repeating topics (from the long history of TB) or to diss topics that someone else might not have had the opportunity to take at college... it reminds me of a joke.
In the big house, at night, the lifers used to stir things up shouting dirty jokes and stories, and endless variations. But the guards clamped down, so the prisoners numbered them and now one just calls out "263" and everyone snickers cuz they're in the know and the guards aren't.

Pardon my rant, and no offense intended.
 
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#79
tb-player said:
I posted here once & made the comment that "D# isn't a key" and all hades broke loose.
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if we are talking about major it no use calling a key D# major since all notes are sharps and C and F are double sharps. Much easier to call it Eb with only three flats.
It's common practice to use the least amount of accidentals as possible. But some musicians prefer flats instead of sharps.

There are enharmonic keys that have the same amount of flats as sharps. F# major has 6 sharps and Gb major has 6 flats. Which would you choose? I don't have a preference but you see Gb more often. Same applies to D# minor and Eb minor. You see Eb minor more often.

As for the OP's question. It has been answered by Ed already. But C# has nothing to do with the key. It's just the name of the drop tuning. You might also call it Db tuning. It doesn't matter. I guess C# is more common for guitar players and that's why they call it C# tuning instead of Db.
 
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#80
The key of D# major doesn’t actually exist in musical notation (when looking at music literature you figure out the key by how many sharps are placed next to the staff, and there just isn’t a way to notate the key of D# major). The key of Eb major does exist though (3 flats). That’s why you hear “Eb” more. The keys of Db (5 flats) and C# (7 sharps) both exist, so either way you choose for that key is technically correct and up to you. I know this sounds like a nerdy answer, but you asked, and it’s the way they decided it to be centuries ago.
 

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