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theory - Why do we call D# Eb, but also call Db C#?

#21
A few months ago, someone at one of the churches I play at asked if it was OK if they played in "flat keys". I said "sure" - I've played in every key before (accommodating singers is a large part of what I do), what's the harm?

The next weekend, every song was is Db. By the end, it felt like we'd been swimming in the same boring tepid water for quite a while - something about that key for several songs just felt uninspiring.
 
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#24
Which name makes it easier to understand? Do you call it C# tuning because the music you play is easier to interpret in a “sharp key” than in a “flat key?” That’s usually how the usage works. The point of notation is to communicate musical ideas to other people. Mixing sharps and flats in a tune can certainly be done, and is done, but reading that notation can be a [Miles Davis’ favorite word]. We can’t all be Frank Zappa WRT reading weird notation.
 
#25
We use C# and Eb as the standard nomenclature (instead of Db and/or D#), so we can play songs in both major & minor keys, without double-flats or double-sharps in the key signature.

C# Major = 7 sharps
C# Minor = 4 sharps
Db Major = 5 flats
Db Minor = 8 flats, no good!
Eb Major = 3 flats
Eb Minor = 6 flats
D# Major = 9 sharps, no good!
D# Minor = 6 sharps
 
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#29
If I may, this doesn't sound like a theory question.
The OP is an axiom that validates a problem and addressing that problem would enable more people to learn music and ultimately that is a worthy goal.

I am a reader and I am glad that I know how to sight read. But our system of notation is not efficient and could be refreshed. It's not like someone ran out of letters, there's 12 notes. So why do we act like it's 8? Oh, I know, so we can use the word "octave" which describes a doubling of frequency, not times 8, and oopsie, the Romans ran out of letters.
 
#30
Drucifer said:
Eb is much easier than D# from the number of accidentals, and so D# is virtually never used.

Db is more common than C#, but I've seen both. Horn players are usually more comfortable with flat keys and guitar players are more comfortable with sharp keys, so it may just depend on who you're talking to.

View attachment 3943887
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As a bassist, I much prefer flats (not to be confused with string type) even when I was playing brass. I’m working with some charts right now that have B# and Cb, and E# but no Fb... The guy that wrote the arrangements is really a good arranger, one of the best woodwind players I’ve ever heard, and I’ve known him since dirt. At this stage I’m not about to poop in his oatmeal and ask for a reprieve.
 
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#31
Systems of notation evolved over long periods and that means that they’re a kind of patchwork. A lot of musical things we take for granted today were just not done a couple hundred years ago so there was no corresponding notation. As we began playing those things, adventuresome spirits that we were, we had to adapt the accepted notation to the new ideas. If I may quote my niece, “AWKWARD!!”
 
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#33
As many people have mentioned, enharmonics aren't really a theory thing so much as a convenience and a nod to the minor OCD thing that most people have of wanting to minimize accidentals, and making it easier to make sense of those that are still necessary.

Brass players prefer flat keys, string players prefer sharp keys, and if you have a full orchestra or otherwise are mixing brass and strings, it doesn't matter what the brass players prefer. :roflmao: Anyone that spent time in the school band, brass or woodwinds, prefer the flat keys because pieces written for band are almost overwhelmingly in flat keys and that's what they got used to. Same thing for strings and school orchestras, except their stuff was in sharp keys.

Tuba players that play CC horns don't really care because they're equally screwed either way.
 
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#34
02E7E01C-37D7-49E3-82FB-A7CE5EBE2AE0.jpeg
 
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#35
Killed_by_Death said:
When referring to tunings, Eb-Standard is quite widely recognized as a half-step down from E-Standard.

However, if we go a step & a half down that's called C#-Standard, why?
It's also Db-Standard, but I've never seen it written out as such.
Click to expand...

For each key you have an en-harmonic antithesis. If you add up the sharps and flats you always come to the sum of 12.
=> You can write down any key with max 6 characters on the staff.
=> More than 7 flats or sharps are never used.

It's obvious to choose 3b's over 9#'s for Eb /D#
Why they prefer to use 7#'s over the 5b's for C#/Db I really don't have a clue :sorry:
 
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#38
I'm totally down with the concept of selecting an enharmonic alternative for easier writing and reading. But here's a thought that troubles me, and perhaps others who play fretless or other instruments of indefinite pitch - the violin family, and trombone (my main axe) in particular. C# and D flat are different. I don't have the bandwidth right now to do the arithmetic on this, but here's a good explanation I just dredged up from the Web:

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52470.html

I generally think of the key of C# as bright neon lights shining on ice. I think of D-flat as warm whiskey glow in a mellow and underlit room. And I once saw God, or the Cosmos, while holding a B-flat in a Dm6 chord, in a five-piece salsa band horn section. And I surmise that composers will choose one over the other for a given expressive purpose because they are, indeed, different.

Even temperment: asset or liability? Of course I'll vote asset, but it ain't perfect.
 

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