Thinking of BEAD, lose the G?

[InternetAlias]

I would've thought that as EAD tension remained the same and then adding way more with B(while understanding G eliminated) might be more than necks were designed for. Especially necks tuned to EADG for years. Like I said, no experience with this so just curious.

Usually, B and E strings actually have LOWER tension than A and G. So no worries. In fact, in a lot of cases, you'll have to adjust your truss rod to compensate for LESS TENSION FROM STRINGS when you go from EADG to BEAD. This is because, to have the equal tension of the E string, the B string has to be quite a bit fatter and most B strings aren't fatter enough to have the same tension as the E from the same set. This is because really fat strings behave less like a string and more like a metal bar.

If you wonder about how strong the tension is, just try to bend the string. if it bends way easier than before, then tension is lower. If it bends harder, then tension is higher.

 

[bassdude51]

Ever hear of the HipShot Bass Extender? (Dumb question) They now have a "double stop" that'll let ya get low B.

You need your G!

Either get a 5er or a HipShot Extender.

BEAD won't work unless if you are a serious low register kind of bass player.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I use my HPF at about 50hz but most of the meat of my bass tone is really in the 80-200hz range. That being said, I gotta disagree with this - a guitar REALLY couldn't do that. It's not all about frequencies, it's also about the saturation of the frequency range.

The lowest note on a guitar being 80hz will produce 80, 160, 240, 320hz, etc harmonics. The lowest note on a bass will produce 40, 80, 120, 160, 200, 240, 280, 320hz, etc.

Even if the amplitudes at unbolded frequencies were equal, the bolded frequencies would cause the sound to sound way fuller, darker and deeper, even without the actual low end.

That's very true, the multiples of the first harmonic are what potentially make the brain fill in the lower missing bits. And are what distinguish different notes that share some harmonics.

 

[JKos]

I would've thought that as EAD tension remained the same and then adding way more with B(while understanding G eliminated) might be more than necks were designed for. Especially necks tuned to EADG for years. Like I said, no experience with this so just curious.

The added B-string has less tension than the removed G-string. Using a D'Addario ESL170-5 set as an example, the B-string has 32.1 lbs of tension while the G-string has 42.5 lbs of tension.

- John

 

[bearfoot]

IDK who did it first, but the first recording band I know of doing this would be Black Sabbath, in this case tuned to C#, but it's the same idea.

I tried BEAD myself once, but for me the low B was not worth the loss of the G.

 

[micguy]

The lowest note on a guitar being 80hz will produce 80, 160, 240, 320hz, etc harmonics. The lowest note on a bass will produce 40, 80, 120, 160, 200, 240, 280, 320hz, etc.

Even if the amplitudes at unbolded frequencies were equal, the bolded frequencies would cause the sound to sound way fuller, darker and deeper, even without the actual low end.

Yes , assuming both you and the guitarist played just one note, that's right. But they tend to play chords, which will fill in that spectrum and then some.

 

[mikezimmerman]

I'm primarily a 5-string player and have been for a nearly 20 years, so I'm used to having the low B string as a reference point, hitting low D an C, and playing up the neck rather than using open strings. Also, most G strings sound a little thin to me, so I generally prefer the tone playing higher on the D string anyway unless I'm doing a lot of chording.

I've had several 4's tuned BEAD, and I built my current Warmoth Jazz with the intention of tuning it that way.

There are a few songs that I miss the G on, but not many--mostly old Rush tunes where I learned the riffs decades ago on a standard-tuned 4!

 

[InternetAlias]

Yes , assuming both you and the guitarist played just one note, that's right. But they tend to play chords, which will fill in that spectrum and then some.

In my particular case, the guitarist's clarity really comes from the area above 200hz so we kinda "collide" on the 80-200hz range, but bass is noticably louder, so the frequencies between his frequencies actually matter quite a bit.

Also no, he really isn't going to be playing chords a lot of the time, and that's kinda the point. It's mostly going to be tremolo picking, mutes, octaves, etc, and having a bass prominent in those frequencies helps make those sound fuller. If he was playing more chords, I'd probably push my bass deeper. It's still deep, down to 50hz, but also prominent in the 80-200hz range.

So it really depends a lot on the context.

 

[Stackpole]

The added B-string has less tension than the removed G-string. Using a D'Addario ESL170-5 set as an example, the B-string has 32.1 lbs of tension while the G-string has 42.5 lbs of tension.

- John

Thanks John. Just found another similar example.

 

[Wasnex]

A player I knew in LA restrung a 4 string Dargie Delight Sterling to BEAD which I thought was a cost effective way to get the benefits of a fiver without buying one. Anyone ever tried this and did you miss the G string?

It's a thing, but I would miss the G and C string too much .

Yamaha TRB6-P has been my primary axe since about 95. I started on string bass and 4-string electric. In the early 90s I transitioned to 5-string and then switched to 6-string about 1995.

I have 4-strings and 5-strings in my collection for variety of sounds, but over the years I have developed unique fingering patterns and shifts that are dependent on having six strings, so it's actually more natural to play the Yamaha.

IMHO, there are some technical aspects that are easier on an extended range instrument and some that are more difficult. I rarely use the C string for any sort of commercial/pop music, but it comes in handy when I need to improvise over chord changes, which is frequent. Also nice if you like doing chordal stuff on bass.

IMHO, nothing wrong with stringing a bass BEAD if it meets your musical requirements .

 

[TomB]

Nothing wrong with BEAD if it supports your repertoire, but a five is probably worth it unless you're too broke to buy one. There are some real position advantages to the extra string beyond just the low notes, and it's not all that hard to learn. Depending on your repertoire, many songs require the G-string - at least the ones I play do - which I admit is mostly more traditional stuff than some here play. I have had some questions about why I use a 5 for trad tunes, but they're easy to answer - I just did!

 

[megarat]

I'm currently giving BEAD a try. I didn't want to mod up any of my primary basses for the larger strings, so I picked up a cheap Yamaha of the same scale length and similar neck width and have devoted that as my BEADer bass for learning.

Speaking for myself, the transition is harder than I thought it would be. I find that I miss the G string something fierce and need to play high up on the neck in order to fit the same patterns that are burned into my muscle memory, which is territory that I'm not as comfortable with (I don't have as many notes memorized beyond the seventh fret or thereabouts, so I get disoriented).

I haven't given up, but I suspect in the end I'll stick with EADG.

 

[Maiden Bass]

FYI to all Talkbass Members!

Zon Guitars is now offering this option on all 4 string U.S. instruments!

I don't believe there is a charge for this option either, but please check with Joe Zon when you place your order!

Order a new Zon and get a BEAD Bass!

 

[Maiden Bass]

Some great BEAD info!

https://www.bassplayer.com/artists/ross-valorys-epic-journey

 

[JaseyT]

The shedding of the G string will often result in BEADs. Especially in New Orleans.

 

[Gaolee]

I wen't BEAD for about a year. It wasn't so much that I had lost the G string as I felt I wasn't really using anything below D enough to justify it.
For my taste the notes were just too slow and rumbly and I felt the B and C notes an octave higher had the punch that I felt were better for the music I was playing.

I switched back to E and installed a hipshot D-tuner and that works better for my needs.

It was a great experiment though. Glad I did it, I learned a lot.

I bought a bass with a D-tuner on it a couple years ago and have put those on a couple more bass guitars since then. I have learned to really like them.

 

[gitfiddl]

The first guy I ever saw in person play a bass tuned BEAD was Rick Godfrey with Microwave Dave and the Nukes back in 2000 or so. Thunderous sound out of a Fender Tele bass! A year or two later, I saw a guy playing BEAD in a local reggae band. If I didn't have a 5-string these days, I'd probably sting one of my 4-strings up BEAD just for versatility's sake.

 

[MrLenny1]

I thought about it thinking it would reduce weight
but realized I need the G and low B for my gig.

 

[JoeWPgh]

I converted one of mine to this, but I rarely use it. I see it more as a specialized thing, as I would miss the G. I removed the original nut and stashed it in one of the control cavities. I put in a precut nut and filed it to accommodate the the thicker gauges, so switching back is an easy swap.

 

[Nev375]

Ever hear of the HipShot Bass Extender? (Dumb question) They now have a "double stop" that'll let ya get low B.

You need your G!

Either get a 5er or a HipShot Extender.

BEAD won't work unless if you are a serious low register kind of bass player.

I don't know of any kind of string that would work consistently over a 5 half-step range. If you detuned it would be too floppy and if you increased to a gauge that would give you adequate tension at B then the E would be too tight.