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Thoughts on TC Electronics.
- Thread starter sxwr
- Start date
TC had a lot of fans here, especially in the effects and recording forums. Unfortunately, they blew a lot of their good will by lying about the power output on their RH series heads. Since then, everything they've done has been somewhat tainted IMO.
I don't have a Ton of amp experience with them, but I have three Of their pedals (HOF, poky time, ditto x2) and I love them! Really quality products.
Try a search on TCE. There really IS a plethora of stuff about the brand, some good and some not so good.
I've got two of their newer cabinets, TC K212. Its a 50lb 2x12" that goes for pretty cheap even brand new. I dig it quite a bit and it handles the power of the Carvin BX700 well. I've got 2 right now and will add another eventually.
I do NOT like the fact that they falsely advertised power ratings. And I do not like the fact that they were recently bought by Behringer, another company which falsely advertises power output ratings.
My roomate has several of their digital effects and they are quite good. Quality stuff I think, not absolute top of the line but perfectly capable.
I do NOT like the fact that they falsely advertised power ratings. And I do not like the fact that they were recently bought by Behringer, another company which falsely advertises power output ratings.
My roomate has several of their digital effects and they are quite good. Quality stuff I think, not absolute top of the line but perfectly capable.
Hum and/or hiss has been a continual problem for me with my BG-250 combo amp. It hums, loudly, if there are fluorescent lights, dimmer switches, or any other weird electronics in the immediate vicinity.
I tried to use it for recording, going direct out from the BG-250 to my computer, and using the amp itself as a monitor. It lays down a very loud hiss during rests.
So... it's no good for gigs and it's no good for recording. It has been relegated to upstairs practice amp duty (the music room with all the rest of the gear is downstairs).
It's a shame because it's very light and does have a pretty good sound once you get it away from stray electronic interference. Unfortunately it's pretty useless to me at present.
I tried to use it for recording, going direct out from the BG-250 to my computer, and using the amp itself as a monitor. It lays down a very loud hiss during rests.
So... it's no good for gigs and it's no good for recording. It has been relegated to upstairs practice amp duty (the music room with all the rest of the gear is downstairs).
It's a shame because it's very light and does have a pretty good sound once you get it away from stray electronic interference. Unfortunately it's pretty useless to me at present.
Too bad a few uptight tech-y types here felt it necessary to sully the reputation of an otherwise stellar amp (RH450/750). It is a terribly misunderstood amp, to say the least...
I can tell you that my experience with both the RH450 and RH750 has been excellent! Far more features than most other amps - particularly for the price.
It is my understanding that the RH450/750 amp's several compression schemes were designed to "mimic" a tube head, and this limits the final output to only "236 watts" (or something close). It is almost as loud as my late 70s V9 SVT head, which I'd heard was one of the design goals. Damn good for a 9 lb head, IMO/IME.
I've no experience with any of the other offerings from TCE.
I, too, am disappointed TCE was sold to Behringer...
I can tell you that my experience with both the RH450 and RH750 has been excellent! Far more features than most other amps - particularly for the price.
It is my understanding that the RH450/750 amp's several compression schemes were designed to "mimic" a tube head, and this limits the final output to only "236 watts" (or something close). It is almost as loud as my late 70s V9 SVT head, which I'd heard was one of the design goals. Damn good for a 9 lb head, IMO/IME.
I've no experience with any of the other offerings from TCE.
I, too, am disappointed TCE was sold to Behringer...
What sort of difference does it make to you guys, that tc electronic is nowadays owned by Behringer (Music Group)? To me, it is making them LESS attractive.
I have a couple of "pre Behringer" rack mount studio grade effects, but I am not sure I will buy more of their products. It is not related to Behringer per se, but more to the fact that I like to support dedicated, specialized, innovative (and underdog?) companies. Global "one stop shops" like Behringer, Harman Kardon Group, (to some extent) Yamaha go against this philosophy.
Without specialized and innovative companies like (for bass) Dingwall, EBS, SWR (pre Fender), MarkBass, ACME etc, our musical world would be smaller and duller, for sure.
In pro audio, it has often been smaller operations like LabGruppen, l-Acoustics, PowerSoft, NADY Systems to name a few, that introduced new thinking and new concepts.
If I buy their offerings, I support innovation and promote "thinking outside the box".
I have a couple of "pre Behringer" rack mount studio grade effects, but I am not sure I will buy more of their products. It is not related to Behringer per se, but more to the fact that I like to support dedicated, specialized, innovative (and underdog?) companies. Global "one stop shops" like Behringer, Harman Kardon Group, (to some extent) Yamaha go against this philosophy.
Without specialized and innovative companies like (for bass) Dingwall, EBS, SWR (pre Fender), MarkBass, ACME etc, our musical world would be smaller and duller, for sure.
In pro audio, it has often been smaller operations like LabGruppen, l-Acoustics, PowerSoft, NADY Systems to name a few, that introduced new thinking and new concepts.
If I buy their offerings, I support innovation and promote "thinking outside the box".
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The TC BH800 is a great and loud amp. Much in there that you explore when you played with it for a while, the EQ for example that works with different freq when you turn the knobs to the left or right + good effects from the toneprint
Short story...
My first meeting with a TC Electronic amp (pedals are another thing, I only have words of praise) is playing on a motorbike festival. I
played my Ibanez SR505 through their combo amp (cant remember which). Oh my... wonderful sound onstage. Next day I found out
a clip on youtube by some guy where I have a minor shred solo- the high notes had wonderful definition and voice. Really, a phone
camera captured the sound just awesome. Was simple to use, also. After me the owner played in on his Tokai Thunderbird bass. It was also no
less then glorious for the cheap price it comes by.
Fast forward, I use their BC250 (210?) cab. It migh be their cheapest one, but paired with my Tour 450 and Thumb 5 I am more than happy
about my sound.
cheers
My first meeting with a TC Electronic amp (pedals are another thing, I only have words of praise) is playing on a motorbike festival. I
played my Ibanez SR505 through their combo amp (cant remember which). Oh my... wonderful sound onstage. Next day I found out
a clip on youtube by some guy where I have a minor shred solo- the high notes had wonderful definition and voice. Really, a phone
camera captured the sound just awesome. Was simple to use, also. After me the owner played in on his Tokai Thunderbird bass. It was also no
less then glorious for the cheap price it comes by.
Fast forward, I use their BC250 (210?) cab. It migh be their cheapest one, but paired with my Tour 450 and Thumb 5 I am more than happy
about my sound.
cheers
Ignore the watts BS. These amps are as loud as the claims and anyone considering purchase should focus on what they sound like.
I have owned the Staccato and RH750. They were great sounding amps and through my Berg cabs drowned out a couple of very loud guitarists.
Last year I went to a Nathan East bass clinic and he got a fantastic sound out of his RH750.
I have owned the Staccato and RH750. They were great sounding amps and through my Berg cabs drowned out a couple of very loud guitarists.
Last year I went to a Nathan East bass clinic and he got a fantastic sound out of his RH750.
I have an RH450 head (the loudest 236 watts ever!), 2 RS212 cabs, Voice live 2 and a ditto looper. I've been using all pieces live for a little over 2 years and they sound great. If TC made a multi effects unit like my Zoom B3 I'd buy it as well.
IMO the TC RH series watts are somewhat misunderstood by most "average" folks.
The intention of RH sound processing is to squeeze most average watts as possible out of the power amp modul. Thus there is need to restrict the "average" power to a distinct number in long term view.
If there was no tube like sound processing to the signal than there was no need for "power management" that protects the power amp modul from ecessive average power.
Of course DIY composed gear of tube preamp and class D power amp does not contain of a "power management" but the lack of appropriate management regarding "average" (which is rms) may cause heating issues to any power amp section. Modern power amps aren't meant to push full power all along the line. Audio program and MI program material is totally different to a bench test with sine waves. And MI program material as well is different to generic audio program material. A sine wave bench mark test means nothing to the average of power obtained by a real musical instrument signal which is processed anyway.
Note, rms voltage does not tell anything about peak voltage. With MI or audio program material the peak voltage can easily exceed 5 times above the rms number.
Sine waves have alway 1.41 more peak than rms. That's a big difference that any bench mark test can't regard properly.
IIRC and read carefully enough on TB Andy Agedhorse did a lot of work and research on class D modules to improve heat sink with class D modules. I suppose TC did the heat sink design in a more "standard" way thus there is some need to restrict the average power capability in combination with excessive (tube like emulating) processed signals.
Never the less I think 1/2 of (rated) power available for long term average is a pretty good number and hard to transcend.
The intention of RH sound processing is to squeeze most average watts as possible out of the power amp modul. Thus there is need to restrict the "average" power to a distinct number in long term view.
If there was no tube like sound processing to the signal than there was no need for "power management" that protects the power amp modul from ecessive average power.
Of course DIY composed gear of tube preamp and class D power amp does not contain of a "power management" but the lack of appropriate management regarding "average" (which is rms) may cause heating issues to any power amp section. Modern power amps aren't meant to push full power all along the line. Audio program and MI program material is totally different to a bench test with sine waves. And MI program material as well is different to generic audio program material. A sine wave bench mark test means nothing to the average of power obtained by a real musical instrument signal which is processed anyway.
Note, rms voltage does not tell anything about peak voltage. With MI or audio program material the peak voltage can easily exceed 5 times above the rms number.
Sine waves have alway 1.41 more peak than rms. That's a big difference that any bench mark test can't regard properly.
IIRC and read carefully enough on TB Andy Agedhorse did a lot of work and research on class D modules to improve heat sink with class D modules. I suppose TC did the heat sink design in a more "standard" way thus there is some need to restrict the average power capability in combination with excessive (tube like emulating) processed signals.
Never the less I think 1/2 of (rated) power available for long term average is a pretty good number and hard to transcend.
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+1
And TC just recently tripled their standard warranty by moving to the Music Group
I'd like to see it double that for Pro gear, but for the market they're targeting their bass gear for this is a decent warranty.
TC has some really great products for recording and broadcast industries. I am looking forward if the Music Group consolidates TC into Bugera. TC has some advanced features and sound that I'd like to see more of.
wmhill
Inactive
- Aug 20, 2012
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I picked up a BH250 head as a practice/backup rig, because it was priced nice. I have used it for a few small gigs, and it's a pretty decent rig.
The only grips I've heard about them is the way they market the power ratings. It leaves a bad taste in some mouths and taints their overall view of the company. If you read and understand the lit before buying there shouldn't be a issue. I use Fender but have nothing against them (as long as Behringer doesn't screw w/design.)
wmhill
Inactive
- Aug 20, 2012
- 4,054
- 17,209
- Disclosures
- MTD basses endorsed artist Bartolini pickups emerging artist TECAMP bass players gear endorsed
With my BG250, I was actually surprised how loud/clean it would go, for 250 watts.Much better than I had expected. A lot of bang for the buck. (and I was aware of the hate hype)
Well that clean was what they were shooting for with the newish design. Glad things are working for you and you're happy.
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