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Thoughts on the bass "over-player"

#81
Pet Sounds said:
I play in cover bands and try to stick to the original bass lines, though I'm not slavish about it. I'm definitely not crazy about over-players, but dumbed-down versions can be just as bad. I do think that unless you're in a strict tribute band striving to exactly recreate a record, there should be some room to inject your own musical personality into the songs you play.
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I agree with this.

In my earlier post I said that, if I were to cover Deep Purple tunes, I'd play Glover's lines exactly as they are, or at least as close as I could get, but that's not entirely accurate. Even if I could nail his lines 100% note-for-note (and I think I could on a lot of their tunes), I don't think I'd do so all the time...I think I would try to make the lines "mine" to a degree, while still serving the song.

That's why I think some people get annoyed with overplayers...it's great that you CAN do that, but you probably SHOULDN'T if it doesn't work for the song!

I just had "Canned Heat" (by Jamiroquai) cued up on the 'Tube, and to me that's a prime example of a busy bass line - but not overly busy, because it totally serves the song...
 
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#83
QORC said:
thoughts?
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If any band, including the one who originally recorded the tune, plays it live "just like the record" all night I will probably never ever go see them play a second time. I'm just not wired to enjoy that, either as a player or an audience member. I have plenty of respect for those who can do it though, and of course many people do prefer to hear and or play it that way.
 
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#84
I always rail about putting the band's sound before "my" sound, and playing stuff people want to hear as opposed to deep cuts, and I'm of the same mind when it comes to how I play the song. Nobody really wants to hear my sorry wanking, so I usually play the song as close to the original as possible. But if there's something that's justifiable in the context of entertaining the audience then I'll consider it.
 
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#85
I'd like to say one more thing...

There's something to be said for self-awareness, and respecting (A) your bandmates and (B) the audience.

If you're in band playing cover tunes that people, in theory, are supposed to be dancing to, and you ignore the fact that the dance floor is turning into a barren desert...you might be overplaying.

If your bandmates are giving you the ol' stink-eye, and/or if they are coming to you and outright TELLING you "With all due respect, could you dial it back and, y'know, play the bass lines basically how they are SUPPOSED to be played?" - You might be overplaying.:banghead:
 
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#86
I've been accused of overplaying by a prima donna vocalist. Given the situation (album all about her) she was probably right; given that she asked me to join in the first place she shouldn't have expected me to completely change my style - without telling me - before we went into the studio.

In another band I've been begged not to quit as I am "the most exciting bass player we've ever had and the band is boring without you".

It depends, I guess. I do what I do. Get someone else if you don't like it. I really won't be offended. More like relieved.
 
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#88
Element Zero said:
Tired of this “only do what the bass guitar is supposed to do” argument. Stop putting rules on music.
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Agreed. Here's my approach:

It depends. On a lot of things.

I don't have rules, that makes things predictable for the most part and the only thing I'd want to predict is that the show goes well. For the note for note minded, I have the ability to do more than that. Most of the nfn people I've seen fall apart when something goes outside of that. No spontaneity. I've seen folks who've shedded on "Donna Lee" but fumble around in anything outside of the structure.

I've done gigs where the drummer played jacked up rolls every second measure. In that case I don't contribute to the chaos. I've done gigs where everyone is listening to everybody else and playing the same impromptu cues, no matter how subtle. I don't play the same way on all of those gigs. I have experience to push a groove when needed, fill a space when there is one and lay back when all cylinders are firing. Simple, intricate... they're two sides of the same coin. I'm cool either way.

I think I posited this question on the other thread, for the folks who say they dislike busy... could you do it if you wanted to? If not, is that the real problem?
:D
 
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#89
i'm 4. I do it when I want to, but it tends to be when it's appropriate. I don't do it when the repetition of the simple bass part groove is part of the sexiness of it....

And I leave tons of room for anyone else to shine when it's their time.

But just like how my favorite drummers are folks like mitch mitchell, keith moon, etc..... I play like that too on bass.

But I certainly don't do it constantly - and I can't recall being told that I overplay in a rock situation. I rarely play the exact original lines - I can, but it's not fun any more, for me or for the listeners.

If I choose to play up high on the neck to play a high pitched fill, why not? what is wrong with playing up high? doesn't make it inappropriate - in fact, often times playing a fill up high is more like doing a keyboard or guitar fill while those players are busy doing something else, since we're playing live, not overtracking.

I have the technique to play multiple parts on bass - it isn't showing off (although nothing wrong with that imho if it's fun to watch/hear)... it's playing multiple parts from the recording at the same time so the song is complete.

For example if I play born to be wild.... and we have no keyboardist or our guitarist can't cover the hammond chords at the start of every 2nd measure, I do that on bass. it sounds way better than not playing that famous lick... bass, guitar, or organ - nobody cares, as long as they hear it.

I'm definitely a number 4 in your list.
 
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#91
As my tag reads: "I'm not an artist. I'm in the service business." I'm in a stinky little bar band. We play the classic rock hits. I like to learn the bass parts note-for-note so I have a plan to deviate from. It has very little to do with my personal tastes, with the exception of my desire to have the kick drum and the bass sound like one instrument. I'm not concerned with overplaying or dumbing down. To the best of my ability, I'm going to play whatever the song requires. The only times I want to draw attention to myself are the handful of tunes where I sing lead.
 
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#92
Brad Johnson said:
I think I posited this question on the other thread, for the folks who say they dislike busy... could you do it if you wanted to? If not, is that the real problem?
:D
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Do those that can over-play think they are superior to those that can't, or simply grand-standing show-offs, likely frustrated ex-guitarists or lead singers, desperate to be the center of attention instead of staying in the pocket? I guess that probably won't be agreed with either!

LOL. Ability isn't the issue here. I've seen plenty of bassists better than I who are not lead-wanking bass parts all over a song and whom I've admired for the way their talent fits into the song. but like last weekend, I saw guy over-playing so much, it was annoying. distracting. it kinda ruined their sound. Of course he was probably showing off, but I think it's been covered here - some music calls for it, others does not. A lot of bass players can do a lot of fantasy stuff. A "musician" knows when to lay back and play the song as it was largely written.

but given the guys were friends of a friend and introduced me to them between sets, of course I told them how awesome they were - the over-wanking bassist in particular - and how great their sound was. it's what you do.
 
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#93
I think a huge amount of this depends on how many people playing. I play with 2 or 3 others and adjust my flourishes accordingly. I jave even had to play piano parts on the bass when the pianist is away. But I wouldn't play over her when she is there. One of our drummers uses a lot of flourish so my fills match his to be better locked in. The other drummer is more laid back so my fills are. But i also change my sound to suit the songs.
 
#94
QORC said:
but given the guys were friends of a friend and introduced me to them between sets, of course I told them how awesome they were - the over-wanking bassist in particular - and how great their sound was. it's what you do.
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LoL yea, that's good of you. We've all done things like that for friends. I despise people who think they should give criticisms after a performance. The musicians will get plenty of that elsewhere - after a show it's time to feel good about yourselves, worthy or not LoL

But if you were ever in a working situation with that guy, you could suggest playing fewer fills - suggesting they have greater impact if done less often, etc.
 
#95
When I was the slap in guitar center young lad, I got a job backing up an old bluesman who told me "the most important notes are the ones you don't play." Sage advice. I improv a ton of lines in cover songs to this day. But it doesn't have to be all slappy and swanky. Good taste is the key, but taste is subjective. Why does this forum steadfastly drone on about how terrible playing anything but roots below the 5th fret is, but every guy we idolize is "busy?"
 
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#98
Firstly any number I choose will be performed in mediocre fashion but always, hopefully- musically solid.

As a recent out- of- the closet bassist( primarily keys and vocals with secondary percussion, mandolin, guitar for 30+ years- almost always had one or more basses and rigs on hand)
- if playing covers I shoot for #1.
- if playing anything with the right bunch of musicians then anything goes and the over-the-top stuff will be either worked out with the group ahead of time or, preferably, everone will organically be on a similar page and we will create a version of a tune that engages the audience but makes everyone on stage AND musicians in the audience smile and uncontrollably shout "Are you Effing kidding me?"

Unashamed musical magic chaser. It doesn't happen enough but one time was enough to hook me for life.
 
#99
I play in a country and rock group that does mostly covers but I rarely try to match the recording. This is partly because of the simplicity of classic country and the fact that we put our own spin on covers we do. I'm very much a keep it simple guy, but I'll add a bit more or less depending mostly on what the other musicians are doing (often for supporting a solo) or just what the tune seems to require.

I rarely think about my role in the band (locking with drummer, etc) which seems to come naturally after 25 years of bass playing, but I'm always thinking about serving the song and how best to support what the other musicians are doing.

As relates to this quote from the OP...
One man's "over-player" is another man's "talented, beautifully melodic and creative bass player who is adding significantly to the dynamics, melody and complexity of the tune."
...its largely contextual but in our present arrangement as a 5 piece I almost never try to add to the "melody or complexity". When we played as a 3 piece I did a bit of that, but always with restraint.
 

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