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Just a note here for those of you who have discussed the "neck dive' on Epiphone T-Birds.
I replaced the factory strap buttons with Jim Dunlop "Dual Design" straplocks and it eliminated any neck dive on my Epiphone. Something about the extended length of the Dunlop button combined with the strap attachment worked. I don't know if this has been addressed here before so I thought I would mention it. If this tip has been posted before, my apologies. Try it and I think you'll be much happier with the way your T-Bird fits and feels. Just make sure it is Dunlop "Dual Design" replacements. (Not sponsored by Dunlop, I just use them.)
I replaced the factory strap buttons with Jim Dunlop "Dual Design" straplocks and it eliminated any neck dive on my Epiphone. Something about the extended length of the Dunlop button combined with the strap attachment worked. I don't know if this has been addressed here before so I thought I would mention it. If this tip has been posted before, my apologies. Try it and I think you'll be much happier with the way your T-Bird fits and feels. Just make sure it is Dunlop "Dual Design" replacements. (Not sponsored by Dunlop, I just use them.)
I got this stripped Epi Pro IV from Riceage on Ebay last year for $100 delivered. Replaced the trussrod and finally got around to finishing it. Pickups/rings, bridge/tailpiece and bridge/pick up covers are from ThunderBucker Ranch. Bicentennial bird and decal by me.
Vintage style reflector knobs, VVTT
wow that's a kickass bird! hmm I'm thinking maybe my Pro needs this treatment?
- Mar 13, 2008
- 18,898
- 142,256
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist Mike Lull T Bass pickups, The Bass Shop, Seattle WA.
I have a question for my fellow Thunderbird owners / enthusiasts.
Do Thunderbirds receive an undue amount of criticism for neck dive? I have a P-Bass that I've owned for almost 20 years and it suffers from neck dive. I'm sure that there are other basses that also suffer from neck dive. Yet Thunderbirds are the basses that mainly carry the negative vibe for this condition.
I mean I would hope that someone wouldn't want to buy one in the first place just because of the reputation of neck dive. And I also couldn't imagine owning a bass that played and sounded great yet I'd want to get rid of it due to neck dive. But I've seen examples of both.
I know that all of us love our Birds and realize how great they look, sound, and play. And things like neck dive are just a minor nuisance of an otherwise great bass. But why are Birds the main target of the neck dive complaints?
And on a side note, why don't the manufacturers do something to fix this in the first place? Why don't they do things like place the strap buttons in a better location to solve or reduce the issue?
Do Thunderbirds receive an undue amount of criticism for neck dive? I have a P-Bass that I've owned for almost 20 years and it suffers from neck dive. I'm sure that there are other basses that also suffer from neck dive. Yet Thunderbirds are the basses that mainly carry the negative vibe for this condition.
I mean I would hope that someone wouldn't want to buy one in the first place just because of the reputation of neck dive. And I also couldn't imagine owning a bass that played and sounded great yet I'd want to get rid of it due to neck dive. But I've seen examples of both.
I know that all of us love our Birds and realize how great they look, sound, and play. And things like neck dive are just a minor nuisance of an otherwise great bass. But why are Birds the main target of the neck dive complaints?
And on a side note, why don't the manufacturers do something to fix this in the first place? Why don't they do things like place the strap buttons in a better location to solve or reduce the issue?
i dont mean this negatively but, if you have a Pbass that you feel neck dives, then i am assuming for sure you will be less than happy with the "neck dive" from a Thunderbird. i truly believe if you use the correct strap and button placement that neck dive is non-existant...but i never thought my warwicks or Pbasses ever had any "neck dive" issues.
I do own a Thunderbird and while the neck dive from my P-bass isn't as bad as the dive from my Bird, it's a non-issue to me in either case.
That's my other question. Why don't the manufacturers do something about this in the first place?
I think it is because they are Gibsons, and already have an (undeserved) bad reputation. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen "Gibson basses are muddy sounding" on this forum alone I would have a nice pile of dollars. They have a reputation of having terrible neck dive, spread by many who have never even played one (same as the idea that all Gibson basses are muddy). It has become the conventional wisdom here.
Fender basses are loved and respected by many and get a pass on things like this.
- Mar 13, 2008
- 18,898
- 142,256
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist Mike Lull T Bass pickups, The Bass Shop, Seattle WA.
Big question really.........
For some guys they just aren't going to work and it could be for any number of single reasons or combination.
- Body type, if you're drinking too much beer on a regular basis and your waistline laps over your belt a Thunderbird may not be the bass for you....
- Strap length, do what you want here, but if the bass is at your knees and doesn't balance and is uncomfy to play a re-evaluation of your strap length may be in order - see above for a bad combo.
-Strap pin location, for most of us centered on body edge directly behind the bridge and centered at the neck heel work pretty well. This has been what Gibson has done since reissuing Thunderbirds in 1988, previous issues in the '60s and'70s have the forward strap pin mounted on the upper 'bout which also works but prior to the advent of strap locks lead to straps slipping off the forward pin due to a lot of the basses' weight being placed at that point on an angle.
At this point the whole "neck dive" thing kinda makes me chuckle, personally I don't have any issues with any of my Reverse Thunderbirds, so this kinda takes on a myth of almost "Urban Legend" proportions which is fine by me. If it keeps some guys from even trying a Thunderbird it's likely not the right bass for them anyway - I like playing a bass the looks and sounds different from the next guy
Me and mine....
No balance problem here.
Agreed - I've played hundreds of Fender basses, and have never experienced neck dive with any of them... I also don't have any neck dive issues with my '06 Gibson T-bird, either...
- georgestrings
- Jul 1, 2005
- 4,291
- 21,932
- 79
- Disclosures
- CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
All 196Os Gibson basses (actually back to 1952), from EBs to Thunderbirds had the strap button in the same place, centered on the back of the bass as close to the neck heel as possible. Gibson guitars are the same, on the back, not the side.
Gibson moved it to the side on the 1976 Bicentennials and that's where the trouble started, those basses are longer than 60s and more prone to dive. I won't bore you with the pictures.
A lot of 60s 'birds have had a third button added in a misguided attempt to cure a minor inconvenience. Man Up or Move On!
Gibson moved it to the side on the 1976 Bicentennials and that's where the trouble started, those basses are longer than 60s and more prone to dive. I won't bore you with the pictures.
A lot of 60s 'birds have had a third button added in a misguided attempt to cure a minor inconvenience. Man Up or Move On!
godofthunder59
Life is short, buy the bass.
- Feb 19, 2006
- 9,059
- 38,436
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Cataldo Basses, Whirlwind products, Thunderbucker pickups
And no mud here, I live in the neck pickup (one day, one day I'll have a single pickup Tbird) without any muddy tone issues.
- Mar 13, 2008
- 18,898
- 142,256
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist Mike Lull T Bass pickups, The Bass Shop, Seattle WA.
Gringo Starr said:
What neckdive?
Epiphone is adressing the problem, thy are putting the straplock on the neckplate on there newer basses.
You gott a P bass with neckdive how come? I never had a P bass with neckdive and ihave own 4 in the past.
tbird are a basses some can handle playing, and people how badmouth the bas cant handle the bass.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Ive got two birds with little to no neckdive
TBird1958 said:I was trying to be nice about it
Drag Queens telling adult males to "man up"
Hell yeah, and thats the way it is in the thunderbird world.
How in the hell do you play that lowWhat neckdive?
Epiphone is adressing the problem, thy are putting the straplock on the neckplate on there newer basses.
You gott a P bass with neckdive how come? I never had a P bass with neckdive and ihave own 4 in the past.
tbird are a basses some can handle playing, and people how badmouth the bas cant handle the bass.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Ive got two birds with little to no neckdive
tbird99 said:
For me thats normal
. I pick just before the neckPU.When i started playing my idol was Bartmann the bassist From Peter Pan Speedrock (still is in a way)
And his bass is very low
See:
People how like fast Rock'N Rock (motorhead nashville pussy) like peter pan speedrock
Here is a link to YouTube:
tbird99 said:
For me thats normal
. I pick just before the neckPU.When i started playing my idol was Bartmann the bassist From Peter Pan Speedrock (still is in a way)
And his bass is very low
See:
People how like fast Rock'N Rock (motorhead nashville pussy) like peter pan speedrock
Here is a link to YouTube:
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