Thunderbird Club

[dagrev]

Don't even tune it. Don't look at it.

You were on a roll but stopped short. If you only knew, you would have said, "And don't you play it." No that I would have listened. I enjoy it no matter how good I'm not.

 

[Gaolee]

You were on a roll but stopped short. If you only knew, you would have said, "And don't you play it." No that I would have listened. I enjoy it no matter how good I'm not.

 

[dagrev]

ok, now you hit in on the head….I try to refrain from these responses as they always seem to start completely unrelated dialog but in this case (and from what you posted) it makes sense to add as it may answer some questions some may have….
there are MANY different types of caps out there…the types are dictated by the tech at the time they were built….although the transistor was invented in 48, they were not used in pro audio till at least a decade later, they were just a PITA to implement…… for that reason, the caps found in early 50’s gear would be of the high voltage tube-tech type….since charge (Q) equals the capacity by the Voltage it follows that at a lower Voltage (such as those used by transistor-tech) the capacity (physical size) of a cap would have to increase for the same charge (Q) which is directly related to the uFd rating of the cap…..
when a designer is shopping around for a cap, three things are of importance, first, electrical characteristics (what’s the cap going to do? decouple noise? couple sensitive signals? bulk decoupling of a power supply?)
second, price.
third, physical size (more recent requirement with shrinking assemblies) ….
finally, tolerances, meaning how much will the capacitor uFd value drift from its spec as a function of temp….commercially there are three main ones,
5ZU 10% drift, cheapest
X7R 5% drift, more expensive
NPO (C0G) 1% drift, most expensive….
without going into particulars of construction technology such as ceramic, tantalum, aluminum, polypropylene etc. the crux basically is;
if I’m designing a very fast Phase Locked Loop circuit to capture a satellite downlink where proper operation of the circuit ensures the safety of human life for example, you better believe I’m gonna select the more expensive NPO type for the loop filter….if on the other hand I want to decouple HF noise from the input of a gain stage, I’ll choose the cheaper 5ZF type banking on its inferior quality to guarantee better broadband rejection as I’m using its quality shortcomings to my advantage……make sense? now picture Leo’s shop in the early 50’s where he probably had a broad selection of different types of caps due to whatever was available in his initial low procurement quantities…. cheap ones, expensive ones, etc and he gets an urgent order for 40 P basses but doesn’t have enough of the same type of caps to fill the build, undoubtedly other (possibly better quality) caps will end up in some of those P basses…..alternative, since the application is not mission critical (meaning there is no major human life or monetary risk) cheaper higher drift caps may end up on some the instruments hence “these are both 52s but this one sounds so much better”… make sense? lotsa moving parts in these manufacturing related topics….

Great, informative post!

 

[PillO]

Don't even tune it. Don't look at it.

Sometimes you need to tune

 

[PillO]

ok, now you hit in on the head….I try to refrain from these responses as they always seem to start completely unrelated dialog but in this case (and from what you posted) it makes sense to add as it may answer some questions some may have….
there are MANY different types of caps out there…the types are dictated by the tech at the time they were built….although the transistor was invented in 48, they were not used in pro audio till at least a decade later, they were just a PITA to implement…… for that reason, the caps found in early 50’s gear would be of the high voltage tube-tech type….since charge (Q) equals the capacity by the Voltage it follows that at a lower Voltage (such as those used by transistor-tech) the capacity (physical size) of a cap would have to increase for the same charge (Q) which is directly related to the uFd rating of the cap…..
when a designer is shopping around for a cap, three things are of importance, first, electrical characteristics (what’s the cap going to do? decouple noise? couple sensitive signals? bulk decoupling of a power supply?)
second, price.
third, physical size (more recent requirement with shrinking assemblies) ….
finally, tolerances, meaning how much will the capacitor uFd value drift from its spec as a function of temp….commercially there are three main ones,
5ZU 10% drift, cheapest
X7R 5% drift, more expensive
NPO (C0G) 1% drift, most expensive….
without going into particulars of construction technology such as ceramic, tantalum, aluminum, polypropylene etc. the crux basically is;
if I’m designing a very fast Phase Locked Loop circuit to capture a satellite downlink where proper operation of the circuit ensures the safety of human life for example, you better believe I’m gonna select the more expensive NPO type for the loop filter….if on the other hand I want to decouple HF noise from the input of a gain stage, I’ll choose the cheaper 5ZF type banking on its inferior quality to guarantee better broadband rejection as I’m using its quality shortcomings to my advantage……make sense? now picture Leo’s shop in the early 50’s where he probably had a broad selection of different types of caps due to whatever was available in his initial low procurement quantities…. cheap ones, expensive ones, etc and he gets an urgent order for 40 P basses but doesn’t have enough of the same type of caps to fill the build, undoubtedly other (possibly better quality) caps will end up in some of those P basses…..alternative, since the application is not mission critical (meaning there is no major human life or monetary risk) cheaper higher drift caps may end up on some the instruments hence “these are both 52s but this one sounds so much better”… make sense? lotsa moving parts in these manufacturing related topics….

I am amazed at your willingness to write so much on a topic that so many care so little about.

 

[BklynKen]

How old is it? I've always liked a BC Rich with those early humbuckers ever since I saw Tony Sales playing one with Iggy Pop.

1976

 

[JJR58]

Sometimes you need to tune

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I am amazed at your willingness to write so much on a topic that so many care so little about.

speak for yourself there.....Geddy and Steve Harris care very much...

 

[bylar13]

Life immitating art or art immitating life?

 

[GonePlaid]

That's good considering your fondness for that band (and not intended to be dismissive).

Typing things like that make me smile.

 

[BklynKen]

Sometimes you need to tune

That is one of my favorite things ever, when he tunes the violin. Brilliant.

I also always thought it was a lost comedic opportunity to not make the double-neck BC Rich bass two identical 4-string basses.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Gibson cases.
View attachment 5091887

needless to say which one I trust most.....

 

[JJR58]

needless to say which one I trust most.....

 

[JJR58]

The Man, and his cap

 

[TBird1958]

The Man, and his cap

View attachment 5092153

Ah yes, "that" hat.

 

[JJR58]

Ah yes, "that" hat.

The King and Queen

 

[TBird1958]

Me and my hat realizing that we're actually in California.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Me and my hat realizing that we're actually in California.

yep….sure don’t look like Oregon…

 

[KaraQ]

Not Thunderbird related

 

[JIO]

The eagle Thunderbird VP has landed! Gilded Bird - Geo's new Thunderbird related project