Thunderbird Club

[Korladis]

That's because you haven't played one of these...

Three tubes, six lbs, 900 watts @ 4 ohms, and bulletproof.

Sitting on its just-in-case backup.

Two tubes, 18 lbs, 200 watts made in USA, last 'peg I'll ever buy after the PF-500 fiasco.

I removed and replaced the Streamliner logo plexi with clear lexan. Looks better with the 12AX7s behind it.

Never seen one of those Ampegs before.

Currently I play a Mesa D-180, but I'm thinking about getting an SVT-2Pro.

My Chinese Epiphone is good value for the money. I have played other ones that were not great, as far as sound and finishing touches. I played a goth at local Sam Ash and was shocked how good it was. I had another Epiphone that sounded like sludge no matter how I tried to EQ it.
I can only speak for my Gibson, but the quality is far higher. The small details are better, the bridge is better and the tuners are better. Seeing the price difference between the two brands, the Epiphone is a good value for the money, depending on what one you got off the line.

The bolt-on Epiphones I've tried I mostly haven't liked. I'm talking about the neck through ones (which have Gibson pickups... that I replaced anyway, because chrome, same with the bridge).

But I haven't liked any of the Gibsons I've tried (though I've never had the pleasure of trying a vintage one). Nothing wrong with the built quality... they just hurt my hand... which is why, for me, Epiphone > Gibson.

 

[Korladis]

I love the neck on my T Bird Pro (Indonesia). It feels great. I have tried a couple of bolt-ons and they don't feel right. If I get another T Bird, it must be a neck through.




Nitrocellulose wears more/faster than a polyurethane finish. That is why all those old instruments get road-worn. It is toxic and flammable so is difficult to work with due to storage and handling concerns. I don't know that it is illegal in any jurisdiction (although California legislators like to think that their laws trump all others), but the OSHA handling restrictions would make it cost prohibitive many places. I have one nitro finished bass and I can't feel any difference, but I do get to worry about staining, chips, and wear.

I live in California. I'd appreciate it if you left my state out of this.

As for nitro.... it wears faster, it's highly flammable, it's toxic, difficult to work with, it yellows and cracks over time. I'm not a baby boomer, so I don't have any nostalgia for the 50s and 60s. I chalk the fetishization of nitro up to a combination of rose tinted goggles as far as the past, and guitarist woo (which itself is partly based on nostalgia).

 

[Christine]

For quite a while (from a decade ago until this past year or two) I thought I hated T-birds because every one I tried had a neck uncomfortable (to me! every hand is different!) to the point that play even just a short while on it hurt my hand.

Then on a whim I tried an Epiphone (neck through model). It felt great. I tried another one. It also felt fantastic.

Bought another TBer's. It feels great, too.

All the Gibson ones I've tried hurt.

The neck on my classic pro is identical in dimension and radius to my Gibson

 

[Korladis]

The neck on my classic pro is identical in dimension and radius to my Gibson

Weird. Because the Gibsons I've played definitely feel different than my Epiphone (and other neck through Epis I've tried) to me.

 

[PillO]

I live in California. I'd appreciate it if you left my state out of this.

As for nitro.... it wears faster, it's highly flammable, it's toxic, difficult to work with, it yellows and cracks over time. I'm not a baby boomer, so I don't have any nostalgia for the 50s and 60s. I chalk the fetishization of nitro up to a combination of rose tinted goggles as far as the past, and guitarist woo (which itself is partly based on nostalgia).

Sorry - didn't intend to offend. I lived in Silicon Valley for a couple of years and was always amazed at the regulatory climate there. My car was manufactured to California emissions (and documented as such), but because it wasn't sold in the state, it was designated a "gross polluting vehicle" until I could prove otherwise.

I have some sympathy for the nostalgia finishes, but there is a reason (sometimes more than one) we invented replacements...

 

[Dadagoboi]

...As for nitro.... it wears faster, it's highly flammable, it's toxic, difficult to work with, it yellows and cracks over time. I'm not a baby boomer, so I don't have any nostalgia for the 50s and 60s. I chalk the fetishization of nitro up to a combination of rose tinted goggles as far as the past, and guitarist woo (which itself is partly based on nostalgia).

As someone who's actually worked with everything from nitro, acrylic, two stage isocyanates (Imron), poly, waterbase, you name it....and has consulted extensively with the furniture finishing industry in both the US, including California (SCAQD and the Bay Area), and Asia (China, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Viet Nam) I respectfully disagree with your opinions.

Nitro requires more care by the owner but current wood painting technologies, possibly excepting water base, are no less toxic if improperly handled.

This is on my bench for a refin. $3500 USA Spector with a finish that looks like bad fotoflame wrapped in plastic. Gonna look great in matte black acrylic lacquer.

I trust my customer will take as good care of it as the bass I just built him and the one I'm building...which will have no finish at all. IMO it's really not that difficult to maintain any finish if your perception is that it has advantages over other options. Vive la difference.

 

[Christine]

Weird. Because the Gibsons I've played definitely feel different than my Epiphone (and other neck through Epis I've tried) to me.

Absolutely identical I kid you not, well within 0.1 of a millimetre, measured with a vernier and a profile gauge

 

[Korladis]

As someone who's actually worked with everything from nitro, acrylic, two stage isocyanates (Imron), poly, waterbase, you name it....and has consulted extensively with the furniture finishing industry in both the US, including California (SCAQD and the Bay Area), and Asia (China, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Viet Nam) I respectfully disagree with your opinions.

Nitro requires more care by the owner but current wood painting technologies, possibly excepting water base, are no less toxic if improperly handled.

This is on my bench for a refin. $3500 USA Spector with a finish that looks like bad fotoflame wrapped in plastic. Gonna look great in matte black acrylic lacquer.

I trust my customer will take as good care of it as the bass I just built him and the one I'm building...which will have no finish at all. IMO it's really not that difficult to maintain any finish if your perception is that it has advantages over other options. Vive la difference.

I don't like "quilted" personally.

From what I've seen nitro just doesn't hold up as well as other finishes. And it gets gross and flaky when it starts coming off (played quite a few used basses with this problem). As far as I'm concerned, using it seems like just a "they used to use it back in the day, therefore it's better!" thing.

Of course, my basses don't cost $3500... so, there is also that...

 

[Korladis]

Absolutely identical I kid you not, well within 0.1 of a millimetre, measured with a vernier and a profile gauge

Bizarre. No idea why they feel different to me, then. Maybe I'm just going (more) crazy.

 

[Christine]

Bizarre. No idea why they feel different to me, then. Maybe I'm just going (more) crazy.

Perhaps it's the poly finish that interacts with your hand differently to make it feel more comfortable? Poly feels more grippy to me than nitro

 

[Korladis]

Perhaps it's the poly finish that interacts with your hand differently to make it feel more comfortable? Poly feels more grippy to me than nitro

Could be.

 

[GBassNorth]

Neck through with active electronics and high mass bridge. The classic pro is neck through with passive electronics and 3 point bridge.

Epi Pro IV is through neck

That Epi is a bolt-on necked limited edition custom shop model in the color TV Silver with a 1.5" nut and chrome hardware.

These are very nice players with a nice slim neck profile.

Epiphone (Gibson?) have tried very hard to confuse.
Pro IV is neck through
Classic Pro is neck through and to be replaced by the new one.
Thunderbird IV is bolt on.
Thunderbird Goth is bolt on but stealth mode.

When I was trying to learn about Thunderbirds I was almost perpetually confused. So many ads for the Epi's are mislabeled which doesnt help anyone.

I t looks like one of these:
Epiphone TV Silver Thunderbird IV Bass

That's what I just said above...

Yes, but it was on a new page, so not immediately obvious. I also included the link to the Epiphone webpage. So I will claim some value added.

All - thank you for your help. My continual Eppi model confusion is due largely in part to "professional" retailers advertising their gear under the wrong model name. You've all made it much clearer to me! Each of you (along with all the other Bird brains in this club) make this the best Thunderbird focused blog on the web.
Rock it hard!

 

[JIO]

Epiphone > Gibson

Sorry, not sorry.

Epiphone > nearly accurate
My point was that one would think that the (mother) company, the one that first produced the iconic bass would take pride in issuing an accurate tribute to said bass, and more as a statement of "we are Gibson - we started this ball rolling". Nothing more, nothing less. I think it'll be great that fans of the original T-bird will buy the Epiphone. I'll guess that some of them will replace the Epiphone tr cover and install one that says Gibson.

 

[GBassNorth]

On the finish topic, I have probably every type of finish ever used on electric guitars and basses currently hanging on the wall in my home studio. From a sound standpoint I don't notice a rats whisker of difference in any of them. From a visual standpoint I like them all or I wouldn't have bought them. However, from a players standpoint I notice a huge difference and I have very strong preferences on what works best for me. Raw necks are my favorite, poly necks are too grippy and on a hot day outside nitro necks are too sticky. Body finishes are more of a visual thing for me, I like the durability of poly and the lightness of nitro but prefer the look of raw waxed wood.

The finish I'd love to see on a TBird is a sealed and stained mahogany (or other dark wood - walnut, bubinga, koa, cocobolo etc) body waxed to a nice satin finish. And a raw rosewood/rosewood or wenge/wenge neck. There's just something about dark wood bodies and raw necks that looks and feels perfect to me.

 

[GBassNorth]

Nitro is not legal to use in some areas, hence fender stopped using it (California). I know some models have it, perhaps arizona has looser laws. One of my guitars has a custom nitro finish, the luthier was like "hey this is illegal to use but it is the good stuff" , 25 yrs ago. Laws may have changed, politicians may have been bought.

Anyone saying their Chinese epiphone is better than a Gibson is fooling themselves, however when price: quality ratio is taken into account....

My Korean goth is noticeably better built than the Chinese one I just got. The truss bug is almost stripped because the truss is too hard to turn and the metal is not hard enough on those nuts. A recipe for disaster. Corners cut. I did a full setup on the goth and had no problems. The adjuster seems to be too tight against the cavity, just sloppy manufacturing, and can see some slop on the pickup routes. Just overall fit and finish is not as good on the Chinese.

I will try to get a korean one if I get another. Or take you guy's word on the custom shop limited editions being a little better. Still want a TV silver. Am considering trying to trade my sunburst and some money/fender bag for a TV silver.

Dont know if this is a good price but it's hard to beat the GC return policy if you don't like it upon arrival...
Invalid Link Removed

 

[Dadagoboi]

Of course, my basses don't cost $3500... so, there is also that...

The Spector's finish isn't as well leveled in the center of the body as this MIK $200 Hamer (foto flame) Slammer.

 

[GBassNorth]

As someone who's actually worked with everything from nitro, acrylic, two stage isocyanates (Imron), poly, waterbase, you name it....and has consulted extensively with the furniture finishing industry in both the US, including California (SCAQD and the Bay Area), and Asia (China, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Viet Nam) I respectfully disagree with your opinions.

Nitro requires more care by the owner but current wood painting technologies, possibly excepting water base, are no less toxic if improperly handled.

This is on my bench for a refin. $3500 USA Spector with a finish that looks like bad fotoflame wrapped in plastic. Gonna look great in matte black acrylic lacquer.

I trust my customer will take as good care of it as the bass I just built him and the one I'm building...which will have no finish at all. IMO it's really not that difficult to maintain any finish if your perception is that it has advantages over other options. Vive la difference.

Spector is one of my favorite "shiny new marble" basses (vs Alembic who makes more of a "coffee table" bass). Spector is kind of the PRS of the bass world to me. Love their woods and finishes but they do have a tendency to not make a lot of understated builds. For many its too much of a good thing and if you're drawn to solid color paint jobs it's probably going to be a real turn off.

 

[TBird1958]

Just got a GK 700rb-II yesterday...near mint condition. Looking forward to connecting to my SBX Plus 4x10 and SBX Plus 1x15. What are your settings on the 700-rb II ? I understand you drive two SBX 4x10 cabs, correct?

Of late I'm just bringing a single 4x10 Goldline to a lot of our shows when we have good FOH and I've worked with the sound guy, the SBXs are upstairs and are my ridiculous practice rig.

Here's a shot of my settings, the only thing that changes from playing at home vs. band rehearsal/shows are the positions of the volume knob (left, it goes up a to maybe 10:00) and the woofer knob (right - to what's needed).
Treble @ 12:00
Hi Mid @ 11:00
Lo mid @ 2:00
Bass @ 10:30

For what my bands needs from me, this works really well. I prefer some note distinction so it's not overly bassy and travels out into the room. Of course everybody's different so, to each their own.

 

[Dadagoboi]

Spector is one of my favorite "shiny new marble" basses (vs Alembic who makes more of a "coffee table" bass). Spector is kind of the PRS of the bass world to me. Love their woods and finishes but they do have a tendency to not make a lot of understated builds. For many its too much of a good thing and if you're drawn to solid color paint jobs it's probably going to be a real turn off.

There's quilt and there's quilt. The Spector catalogue shows a spectacular piece of 5A quilt on its page for this bass, customer's is maybe 2-3A IMO.

My made in Korea Washburn Stu Hamm has better quilt on its back side than the Spector's front considering it cost 1/5 the price.

 

[TBird1958]

View attachment 1051898 Hi all. Has anyone learned more info on this yet? Bird #3 I'm thinking... Thx

Ummmm. You guys can order this bass at any time. Mine was reserved/confirmed 3 weeks ago with Sweetwater.