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Thunderbird Club

#276,681
Chucky Stiletti said:
see? there’s an excellent example, thx for posting…..this time, they had .047uFd caps but that one there is overkill as it looks like it may be mylar (less lossy hence more expensive than ceramic) a tighter (again more expensive) tolerance (+- 20% instead of +80% -20%) and a 400VDC rating which is WAY overrated since one would never see voltages like that in a bass…..they just happened to have those in the stock room when they kitted for that build…..that’s why, the tone (and hence, extended discussions) of different bass models from different manufacturers can be so subjective/irrelevant …
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Interesting. I understood everything but the "less lossy" part. Never heard that before that I know of. This is why my Thunderbird sounds better than all other Thunderbirds is what you are saying.:laugh:

I guess it could have been added later, but looks as old as everything else in there, coming from a lay person anyway. I wouldn't necessarily know but it doesn't look to me like someone has redone anything. I'm sure you can't always tell, but even I have noticed a few where is was obvious. Probably like when I replaced the pots (to correct year) and the Klein 60s pickup in the '64 Pbass. I'm not sure what it looked like when I was finished, but it likely wan't pretty. Wrong solder possibly, crappy iron, sorry worker all likely added up!
 
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#276,682
Chucky Stiletti said:
.02uFd or 20nFD or .00000002Fd
the Z is for the tolerance which unlike in most cases is asymmetric. the capacitance can be the .02uFd +80% or -20%. hence “asymmetric”….in contrast, if the same capacitor had a J instead of a Z it’s tolerance would be +-5%.
clearly, the Z tolerance caps are the cheapest and not meant for mission critical applications……
as an interesting side note, no two Marshalls from the Jim Marshall period sound the same because in an effort to cost reduce the product, 20% tolerance resistors were used throughout…..
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Thanks Chuck! I didn't know about assymetrical tolerance in capacitors (going to file that term in my list of song title ideas:D).
Tone control in a bass guitar is only considered a mission critical application by bass geeks like us.
I recommend getting a meter with the ability to read capacitance. It doesn't cost much more.
 
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#276,683
Sloth Saturday?

IMG_2481.jpeg
 
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#276,684
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#276,686
Chucky Stiletti said:
see? there’s an excellent example, thx for posting…..this time, they had .047uFd caps but that one there is overkill as it looks like it may be mylar (less lossy hence more expensive than ceramic) a tighter (again more expensive) tolerance (+- 20% instead of +80% -20%) and a 400VDC rating which is WAY overrated since one would never see voltages like that in a bass…..they just happened to have those in the stock room when they kitted for that build…..that’s why, the tone (and hence, extended discussions) of different bass models from different manufacturers can be so subjective/irrelevant …
Click to expand...

Which brings up another question - what is a correct VDC rating for a .047uFd cap?
 
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#276,688
These two!
You'll have the opportunity to meet them both at the Seattle 2024 GTG, PM me for details and stay tuned for an email thread soon.

LJmVMXM.jpg


A lucky few will get to meet Latifa

Bay0RNK.jpg
 
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#276,689
JIO said:
Which brings up another question - what is a correct VDC rating for a .047uFd cap?
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The voltage rating is the maximum voltage a cap will tolerate. You typically get the lowest voltage rated cap that will work in your application, to save money (purchasing and inventory costs). But with this type of cap, there’s often little price difference, so it’s easiest to just buy them all the same. We’re talking mV to 1-2 volts from pickups, so a 10V or 25V cap is more than enough - if they make one when you’re building. You could use a 1kV rated cap here. It makes no difference.
 
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#276,692
dagrev said:
Interesting. I understood everything but the "less lossy" part. Never heard that before that I know of. This is why my Thunderbird sounds better than all other Thunderbirds is what you are saying.:laugh:

I guess it could have been added later, but looks as old as everything else in there, coming from a lay person anyway. I wouldn't necessarily know but it doesn't look to me like someone has redone anything. I'm sure you can't always tell, but even I have noticed a few where is was obvious. Probably like when I replaced the pots (to correct year) and the Klein 60s pickup in the '64 Pbass. I'm sure what it looked like when I was finished, but it likely wan't pretty. Wrong solder possibly, crappy iron, sorry worker all likely added up!
Click to expand...
there are many types of capacitors available commercially. different materials yield different characteristics and behaviors. to better understand loss in a cap, picture two motors clutched to two flywheels one with brand new bearings the other with very old worn (but still functional) bearings spinning at 1000RPM…..if both clutches are released at the same time, one flywheel will spin longer than the other because the latter is lossier….
in this case the loss is in heat through mechanical friction……the same effect occurs in electrical components… the loss in a capacitor can be viewed as that very capacitor in series with an unnecessary (parasitic) resistor that creates loss in heat much like mechanical friction would…better (more expensive) lower loss caps are used in RF where the loss affects the “selectivity” of filters making the extra cost unavoidable…. in other applications such as tone circuits in a guitar these cheaper one are totally acceptable….hope this makes sense?…
another interesting side note is that the cap in your bass was typically used in tube circuits aiding in confirming the vintage of the bass since those caps are relatively way more expensive today since tube amps went away…..
finally, one of these always makes the solder joint look “factory “….
F0FB04AE-D68B-454B-AB88-A76D7F94FDA4.jpeg
 
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#276,694
Chucky Stiletti said:
there are many types of capacitors available commercially. different materials yield different characteristics and behaviors. to better understand loss in a cap, picture two motors clutched to two flywheels one with brand new bearings the other with very old worn (but still functional) bearings spinning at 1000RPM…..if both clutches are released at the same time, one flywheel will spin longer than the other because the latter is lossier….
in this case the loss is in heat through mechanical friction……the same effect occurs in electrical components… the loss in a capacitor can be viewed as that very capacitor in series with an unnecessary (parasitic) resistor that creates loss in heat much like mechanical friction would…better (more expensive) lower loss caps are used in RF where the loss affects the “selectivity” of filters making the extra cost unavoidable…. in other applications such as tone circuits in a guitar these cheaper one are totally acceptable….hope this makes sense?…
another interesting side note is that the cap in your bass was typically used in tube circuits aiding in confirming the vintage of the bass since those caps are relatively way more expensive today since tube amps went away…..
finally, one of these always makes the solder joint look “factory “….
View attachment 5331730
Click to expand...
While all else being equal I like paper in oil capacities, my signal travels through so many circuits before I hear it, so it doesn’t matter.
 
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#276,695
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#276,698
Chucky Stiletti said:
there are many types of capacitors available commercially. different materials yield different characteristics and behaviors. to better understand loss in a cap, picture two motors clutched to two flywheels one with brand new bearings the other with very old worn (but still functional) bearings spinning at 1000RPM…..if both clutches are released at the same time, one flywheel will spin longer than the other because the latter is lossier….
in this case the loss is in heat through mechanical friction……the same effect occurs in electrical components… the loss in a capacitor can be viewed as that very capacitor in series with an unnecessary (parasitic) resistor that creates loss in heat much like mechanical friction would…better (more expensive) lower loss caps are used in RF where the loss affects the “selectivity” of filters making the extra cost unavoidable…. in other applications such as tone circuits in a guitar these cheaper one are totally acceptable….hope this makes sense?…
another interesting side note is that the cap in your bass was typically used in tube circuits aiding in confirming the vintage of the bass since those caps are relatively way more expensive today since tube amps went away…..
finally, one of these always makes the solder joint look “factory “….
View attachment 5331730
Click to expand...
Yes, that makes sense. The mechanical analogy really helps kind of visualize what happens. Thanks for taking the time to explain it and 'explain it so well that I can understand it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've vowed to never use the junky iron again and throw it out next time I get that container out.
 
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