Thunderbird Club

[Miles_ONeal]

Likely along the lines of PRC (‘64) mfg vs Indonesia (VP)
The 64 is definitely meatier.

Production line variables and small design tweaks.

The VP shipped with alpha linear 500k pots for volume, and an unidentified 250k pot for tone.

The 64 had 500k linear for all three pots.

I wonder if that was a design decision, accident, or cost-cutting measure.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Yes, according to the guy I talked with at Epi/Gibson they did change the pickups and were aware of the change in tone. I don't know if that was intentional or not. He said it's a balancing act and you change one thing and it affects others. Didn't say what or why they changed, or if the manufacturer changed. Maybe they were hearing the feedback about some thinness and wanted to address it. It would be good if they were hearing what people were saying.

We know the factory changed from Indonesia to China. If nothing else, the serial numbers tell us that. But the rest is a mystery, AFAIK.

 

[BuddhaFingas]

(Off topic, but so weird that they will put the bills in the infants name...)

It makes repossession easier in case of default... and statistically, they have more time to pay from future earnings.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Here's a Twofer Tuesday in keeping with another topic being discussed. The burst is a 2019 VP. The purple sparkle is a 2023 64. The yardstick is lined up with the middle of the bass side bridge bolt; it just looks off due to perspective distortion from the camera being close to the bass.
View attachment 7270428
View attachment 7270429
View attachment 7270431

Addition to the Thunderbird Pickup Distances Wiki:

• 2023 Epiphone 64: 10 3/4", 14 9/16"

These are closer to VP numbers than they looked.

 

[Matt Kustom]

Not sure how it would all lay out but I’d think the three hole cover would be a simple mod to a standard two hole metal cover. Just drill the extra hole and if the bobbins and other guts inside the metal cover and back plate don’t allow that third screw to pass then just glue a dummy screw head into the hole.
The third screw completes the look of the bicentennial pickup (even if it’s just for aesthetics) with out it it’s just another good sounding pickup. I think the Bicentennial pickup also had a unique mounting bracket, I’d skip that part and just go standard mounting.

Nickel Silver does not like to be drilled. I can try again now that i slowed down my drill press to as low as it goes. Last time i tried it was difficult to get a clean drill threw

 

[Engle]

Yes, according to the guy I talked with at Epi/Gibson they did change the pickups and were aware of the change in tone. I don't know if that was intentional or not. He said it's a balancing act and you change one thing and it affects others. Didn't say what or why they changed, or if the manufacturer changed. Maybe they were hearing the feedback about some thinness and wanted to address it. It would be good if they were hearing what people were saying.

I really doubt those changes were intentional, but probably due to moving production. It seems like they find a factory and negotiate a deal to build X number of a particular bass. They seem to leave some of the details up to the factory, and we end up with an instrument that is close, but not exactly like the previous version.
The MIC Jack Casady doesn't even have the same body shape and size as the MIK. The neck went from maple to mahogany and it has more neck angle. I have both and didn't notice the body was different for months.

But it's not like Gibsons are consistent over their production runs either.

We are bass geeks that notice every detail. Everyone else sees a Thunderbird

 

[Engle]

Addition to the Thunderbird Pickup Distances Wiki:

• 2023 Epiphone 64: 10 3/4", 14 9/16"

These are closer to VP numbers than they looked.

I know my VP has the bridge closer to the neck than it really should be. Looks like the Tbird64 has it a little further back,
which would solve your intonation issue with BEAD tuning.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

My bolt-on IV is the BEAD. But my VP almost intonates with E standard or D standard (current) tuning due to the problem you mention. The 64 has no such problem, for sure.
The changes I'm aware of from VP to 64 are:

1. neck angle (-1)
2. pickup position (+1)
3. pickup construction/tone (+2)
4. bridge position (+2)

The above scale is -3 to +3. So that's a decent net gain in my book. I don't notice the neck angle while playing but it does mean the pickups have to be cranked way up and that some aftermarket bridges aren't really an option without coming up with a spacer under them.

 

[dagrev]

Likely along the lines of PRC (‘64) mfg vs Indonesia (VP)
The 64 is definitely meatier.

Production line variables and small design tweaks.

The VP shipped with alpha linear 500k pots for volume, and an unidentified 250k pot for tone.

The 64 had 500k linear for all three pots.

Sounds like the newer Epi pickups were darker than anticipated so they went with all 500k to brighten it back up.

 

[dagrev]

Here's a Twofer Tuesday in keeping with another topic being discussed. The burst is a 2019 VP. The purple sparkle is a 2023 64. The yardstick is lined up with the middle of the bass side bridge bolt; it just looks off due to perspective distortion from the camera being close to the bass.
View attachment 7270428
View attachment 7270429
View attachment 7270431

You using American inches or Metric inches?

Moving the pickups up a bit would also "beef" up to low end a little.
I'm wondering if the new Epis pickups are in the same place as the Epi Embassy, which has much more low end.

 

[dagrev]

We know the factory changed from Indonesia to China. If nothing else, the serial numbers tell us that. But the rest is a mystery, AFAIK.

It's.....Gibson, after all.

 

[dagrev]

I really doubt those changes were intentional, but probably due to moving production. It seems like they find a factory and negotiate a deal to build X number of a particular bass. They seem to leave some of the details up to the factory, and we end up with an instrument that is close, but not exactly like the previous version.
The MIC Jack Casady doesn't even have the same body shape and size as the MIK. The neck went from maple to mahogany and it has more neck angle. I have both and didn't notice the body was different for months.

But it's not like Gibsons are consistent over their production runs either.

We are bass geeks that notice every detail. Everyone else sees a Thunderbird

Yes, I suspect you are right on all accounts. Listening to their customers was just crazy talk!

 

[MCF]

Yes, according to the guy I talked with at Epi/Gibson they did change the pickups and were aware of the change in tone. I don't know if that was intentional or not. He said it's a balancing act and you change one thing and it affects others. Didn't say what or why they changed, or if the manufacturer changed. Maybe they were hearing the feedback about some thinness and wanted to address it. It would be good if they were hearing what people were saying.

Who knows. They may be. The ‘64 (George’s) sounds better to me than my VP.

 

[MCF]

Likely along the lines of PRC (‘64) mfg vs Indonesia (VP)
The 64 is definitely meatier.

Production line variables and small design tweaks.

The VP shipped with alpha linear 500k pots for volume, and an unidentified 250k pot for tone.

The 64 had 500k linear for all three pots.

Does going to a 500k tone pot in a VP make a noticeable improvement?

 

[Miles_ONeal]

You using American inches or Metric inches?

Moving the pickups up a bit would also "beef" up to low end a little.
I'm wondering if the new Epis pickups are in the same place as the Epi Embassy, which has much more low end.

Inca-Aztec Measurement Coalition inches, so South American.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Does going to a 500k tone pot in a VP make a noticeable improvement?

It should leave more highs when wide open. Is that an improvement in your book?

 

[/\/\3phist0]

It should leave more highs when wide open. Is that an improvement in your book?

After updating:
both of mine have:
B500k (Linear taper) Vol
A250k (Audio taper) Tone

Capacitor.047 on both now.

 

[MCF]

It should leave more highs when wide open. Is that an improvement in your book?

No.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

It should leave more highs when wide open. Is that an improvement in your book?

No.

Nor in mine. The VP needs more lows, not more highs.

 

[Engle]

I did a no-load mod on a 250K pot for my EB project. I'm going to try it on the mudbucker.